M2TW Cavalry and EB II

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Antisocialmunky, FYI late medieval plate armour weighed about the same or even less than hoplite bronze cuirasses. This site mentions 52lbs average for the whole equipment (23.58kg according to the converter), and that's a value appropriate for late XV century Gothic plate armour. Don't forget the horse barding which often added weight too, thus making it a bit heavier than in your original values. If the guy was wearing jousting armor, even more.

[Novellus]

Antisocialmunky, FYI late medieval plate armour weighed about the same or even less than hoplite bronze cuirasses. This site mentions 52lbs average for the whole equipment (23.58kg according to the converter), and that's a value appropriate for late XV century Gothic plate armour. Don't forget the horse barding which often added weight too, thus making it a bit heavier than in your original values. If the guy was wearing jousting armor, even more.

True. Take a look at how large the numbers are already WITHOUT adjusting for the additional weight of armor. That is A LOT of momentum going. Truthfully, I felt as though the cavalry didn't do enough damage on charges. Even if cavalry didn't reach full speed and the lances weren't lowered, such as what happens when the charge distance is attempted at too short of a range, the horse should do more damage and disrupt unit cohesion more than it is represented.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yes and now try and face it without a polearm of your own. No wonder that M2TW cavalry is what it is now.

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, that's not accounting for stactic friction/resisting forces(IE braced spears) and people being pushed into each other or rolled out of the way as a dead on hit would be unlikely.

[Cute Wolf]

If u got 3.5 m lance, with some skill you can screw 2 or 3 men in one charge....

rather off the topic question:
What about halberd armed cavalry? they should like Guan Yu (3 kingdoms), and they will hack their way in extremely brutal manner, plus, they had excellent chance to survive in melee... (they are elite cavalrymen in ancient china afterall, why not the saka or sauromatae encountered them and copy them?)

[antisocialmunky]

?Que?

[chairman]

While the halberd was very popular among chinese cavalry in later periods, it was not in common use by EB's time period. In the Warring States period and Han dynasty, the main melee cavalry weapons were the lance (no more than 3m), dagger-axe and sword. Halberds became more common by the Tang dynasty in the 7th C, and by the 10 & 11 C were very popular.

Chairman

[Cyclops]

It seems a fair point the OP raises, and I look forward to the ingenious solution the EB2 team comes up with.

My own uniformed impression is that the stirrup was not in general use (if at all) in the EB2 period, thus making heavy cavalry less effective. Is the problem delivering shock from an unbraced rider and mount to the target without dismounting the rider?

Of course there was effective heavy-to-kataphract weight cav around in the classical age, which did smash infantry quite badly, but just less effectively than horsemen of the age of chivalry. Is that a fair assesment? Its a gross simpification, but the Roman empire held quite well against the northern foes until they were swept away in the Gothic storm, which I'm assuming was a stirrup assisted movement.

I recall a short archaeological film comparing depictions (eg from illuminated mss) with excavated bodies, showing enormous wounds, for example blokes split from collarbone to pelvis. Terrifying how much force a horseman can generate when properly mounted and braced, he had the force of his mount and the extra height (from standing in the stirrups) to swing down from. No wonder even succesful infantry tradtions like the early Franks 9not to mention the eastern empire) adopted heavy cav armament.