berserker unit attribute: possible addition to EB for BI

**Olaf Blackeyes** · 01-31-2009, 05:01

Guns of the South anyone??

**gamegeek2** · 01-31-2009, 05:05

Seriously, I pitted a unit of berserkers against 5 units of spearmen in a BI custom battle, and the fight was close, though the spearmen came through. Against 20 units of peasants, the berserkers won a handy victory.

**antisocialmunky** · 01-31-2009, 05:26

They have 2 HP and area attack crap. You can't compare something with area attack to soemthing other than an elephant or chariot if oyu're talking about EB.

A *full stack*? Of what, gallic levies?

Yeah aparently killing a whole stack of crap is a good measure of awesomeness. Heh, on a related note I've recreated Thermopolyae in EB with the maximum amount of units possible(As in the maximum amount of AIs with full stacks of Pandas and Archer-Spearmen) vs 300 Spartans and 900 allies. It was at 3 FPS when I was looking away from the battle.

**desert** · 01-31-2009, 06:19

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

Anyway, I was playing as Syracuse, so it was against Carthage. Seriously, they will kill absolutely anything in their path. The only thing that seems to stop them is chariots - they snap them out of their berserker rage, leaving them vulnerable.

**Cullhwch** · 01-31-2009, 06:24

In BI a unit of berserkers will take down a unit of elephants with frighteningly low losses. Seriously.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 01-31-2009, 07:15

Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes

Guns of the South anyone??

Yeah, but this is the Antiquity, and not Civil War. Harry Turtledove is the best though. No better author than him.

**a completely inoffensive name** · 01-31-2009, 08:01

I would think that given the ingenuity of the EB team they could implement the berserker attribute. I always thought that the stats of the units were not supposed to be balanced but representative of probably how good they were in a fight. If one unit in RL did go berserk in battle and were able to take down 10+ people for every one of their guys dying, it should be in the game and shouldn't be nerfed.

**Olaf Blackeyes** · 01-31-2009, 08:10

Ok,..... WALKING NUKES ANYONE?!?!?!?!

**Aemilius Paulus** · 01-31-2009, 08:40

Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

I would think that given the ingenuity of the EB team they could implement the berserker attribute. I always thought that the stats of the units were not supposed to be balanced but representative of probably how good they were in a fight. If one unit in RL did go berserk in battle and were able to take down 10+ people for every one of their guys dying, it should be in the game and shouldn't be nerfed.

Yeah, but there were hundreds and thousands of places in the known world of European, North African and Western Asiatic world that were renowned for producing one or more type of exceptional warriors. That place had marvelous archers, this place has unbeatable swordsmen, and that place over there fields superb hoplites, etc, etc. Much of the descriptions of the effectiveness of those units is rather vague, exaggerated or hazy. It is difficult to determine the strength of a unit when all you hear of is boasting. So the EB team attempts to balance it all out.

I do not believe that the Babylonian Spearmen should have something like 8 defence skill while Lugoae have 12, but that is the way it is. Often times one can observe the "civilised" soldiers having low defence skill which is compensated by armour, while the "barbarian" troops have low armour but high defence skill. That's balancing, as the Lugoae have as much defence skill as some of the elite "civilised" units.

**Lysimachos** · 01-31-2009, 09:13

Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

I do not believe that the Babylonian Spearmen should have something like 8 defence skill while Lugoae have 12, but that is the way it is. Often times one can observe the "civilised" soldiers having low defence skill which is compensated by armour, while the "barbarian" troops have low armour but high defence skill. That's balancing, as the Lugoae have as much defence skill as some of the elite "civilised" units.

I think the civilized units often have lower defence skill not because the armor compensates for it, but because the fact that they are wearing armor decreases their ability to defend themselves.
It is much easier for an unarmored man not to be hit, while an armored man can't move as fast and has to rely on the armor: Lugoae dodge blows that a Babylonian Spearman has to take, without being better fighters as such.

**Moros** · 01-31-2009, 12:11

Unarmoured units have indeed a bonus in defence skill for being better able to move and react on incomming hits. Note though that 1 armour point is not the same as 1 point in defence skill. Armour works for any attack, skill only for the right flank and or front and doesn't work for missiles.