Danish river representation on EB map (moved from downgrading drivers)

[Macilrille]

On a similar vein I notice on the map that a river that I suppose is Skjern Å cuts through Jutland while Gudenå is not there at all. This is passing strange to me and perhaps whoever made the map is ignorant of my beloved country (and the streams in which I like to fish). I shal try and enlighten him. Skjern Å, though well known and with some salmon in it is not near as big as Gudenå, running the opposite direction. In fact Gudenå is the only true river in Denmark, the rest being but streams and rivulets (we are a small country and nowhere is over 100 Km from a coast). Perhaps this mistake should be fixed?

[Tellos Athenaios]

But the question is: does this apply to the landscape of 2300 years back? For instance, if someone took a look at a modern map of the Netherlands surely he'd wonder why the Waal isn't included? Yes, it's true the Waal did exist back then. But no, it was definitely not the main stream; the main stream of back then is now almost 'dead': Kromme Rijn and Leidse Rijn.

[Macilrille]

Believe me it did, I would not post if it did not. It has been the same since the Ice Age ended. Now that I have the flu-induced muck out of my eyes I see we are talking downgrading drivers, not rivers, LOL, but it is nonetheless a problem to my perfectionist attitude.

[athanaric]

Actually, Macilrille, the landscape of Jylland has changed since the last Ice Age, mainly due to human intervention.

[Macilrille]

Having done research on the landscape od Jutland up until High Middle Ages while working at Aarhus Bymuseum (City Museum of Aarhus), I can assure you that I know what I am talking about when I claim that Gudenåen, not Skjern Å, should be depicted. The changes Humans have made are more superficial than anything really major.

[Aurgelmir]

Believe me it did, I would not post if it did not. It has been the same since the Ice Age ended. Now that I have the flu-induced muck out of my eyes I see we are talking downgrading drivers, not rivers, LOL, but it is nonetheless a problem to my perfectionist attitude.

LOL

[athanaric]

[...] that Gudenåen, not Skjern Å, should be depicted.

I wasn't referring to Gudenå, but rather to the area east of it (Kolindsund etc.). Sorry I didn't make that clear.

[Macilrille]

Dunno whether those lakes were big enough to warrant inclusion, but that west running river really nags at me

[artaxerxes]

It has been the same since the Ice Age ended

I'm Danish too, and tho I don't have much knowledge of Ice Age geography, I will lend my support to this argument, as having lived all my life in Denmark, I can safely say that: YES, NOTHING EVER HAPPENS in this country and NOTHING EVER CHANGES - so in all probability, the rivers don't either

[Ibrahim]

nothing ever happens, eh?

that's not what I see...


but back on topic: If Macrille here is right, I think it is fair that it could be changed in EB2. otherwise, now that EB1 is officially "near dead" in the patching sense, Why not just change the map pr something in a mini mod. Hooaguy made an extra-mini mod for the purpose of correcting the temple information.

[Macilrille]

Skjern Å (running W), 55°53' N 9° 24' E" to 55°55' N 8° 23' E", 4th longest stream in Denmark, but most volumnous by a little bit.
Starts in Tinnet Krat 70 m above sea level and runs 94 Km West to Fuglsang in Ringkøbing Fjord, drains 2100 Sq Km, falls 70 m from start to end, 36,6 m³/s water runds through it.

Gudenå (running E), 55° 54' 04" N 09° 24' 26" E to 56° 28' N 10° 03' E, longest stream in Denmark, runs through some beautiful nate and a lot of lakes BTW.

Starts in Tinnet Krat as well, only a few 100 m from Skjern Å's spring and 65 m above sea level, and runs 176 Km East and NE to Randers Fjord. Drains 2643 km² at 36,6 m³/s (same as Skjern Å, though the latter is supposedly more volumnous). Runs through the lakes Mossø and Silkeborg søerne (plus some artificial ones which were not there in The Iron Age) and also drains Skanderborgsøerne). Gudenåen is the only stream classed as river in Denmark, and up until 19th century was also significant as a way for barges to go quite far upstream and thus ease transportation. Something Gudenå hinders quite a lot with its many lakes.

At any rate the major prehistoric route up through Jylland "Hærvejen"/"Oksevejen" (Army or War Road/ Ox Road- from 15th cenuty onwards it was used to export cattle to N. Germany). passes the spring of both streams in Tinnet Krat, and should one wander it, one can also meet many remains of dikes etc (like Offa's and Danevirke, but significantly shorter). This track probably streches about as far back as habitation in Denmark, IE 15.000 or so years.

I can do some research as to which of them hindered transport the most in old times, but it seems safe from its length and many lakes that it is Gudenåen, though Skjern Å supposedly has more volume...

[artaxerxes]

nothing ever happens, eh?

that's not what I see...

Honestly have no idea where you're looking

Changing the river in EB1 is not necessary is it? I mean, it's a secluded, isolated area in the north, and usually doesn't have much political importance. But for EB2 it would be a nice touch to have Gudenåen added, since we seem to have agreed on it being the more notable

[Ibrahim]

Changing the river in EB1 is not necessary is it? I mean, it's a secluded, isolated area in the north, and usually doesn't have much political importance. But for EB2 it would be a nice touch to have Gudenåen added, since we seem to have agreed on it being the more notable

I'd have to agree with you: it would be a nice touch to add that river in EB2, and its not all that necessary.. but one can always make little tweaks if he or she likes to EB1. as I said, a few fellows here have already done that, and in every part of the mod too.

[Macilrille]

If you are Moslem Artax, things have happened in the past couple of years in Denmark that you will have noticed and with Ibrahim being originally Kuwaiti (as his name hints), he likely is Moslem. So will most Danes like you and me, but since this is not a political forum we should not discuss that here. I just point out that things do happen in Denmark, depends on your perspective whether you notice.

That being said I would love to see an accurate representation of Danish landscape, as I would of landscape anywhere, but Denmark is the only place I know well enough to nitpick ;-)

[Ibrahim]

If you are Moslem Artax, things have happened in the past couple of years in Denmark that you will have noticed and with Ibrahim being originally Kuwaiti (as his name hints), he likely is Moslem. So will most Danes like you and me, but since this is not a political forum we should not discuss that here. I just point out that things do happen in Denmark, depends on your perspective whether you notice.

That being said I would love to see an accurate representation of Danish landscape, as I would of landscape anywhere, but Denmark is the only place I know well enough to nitpick ;-)

so, you want to modify the landscape for sure? I can help if you want.:let me see if I can find a link towards that purpose, if you want.

EDIT: here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=39035

or this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=93123

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33471 (if you want the river to be crossable by default).

[syct23]

HOLLY CRAP are you guys honestly battling it out on EB about a rivers position during the ice age till now!! WAR Macilrille!!

This needs to be added to the "You know you've played to much EB when" forum.

[General Appo]

No, I think this is good. While of course we shouldn't worry too much about these sort of things, I still think it's good that people point them out rather then just think to themselves "it's probably too small that anyone will care".
Maybe we should have a "Small and not very important errors found in EB thread" were you can post everything from misplaced rivers to spelling mistakes. Could be good.

[syct23]

Their should be some kinda sticky for this kind of topic. Going to collage for my history degree I like this kind of thing and that why I like playing EB so much.. I just this was crazy funny thread to read this early in the morning at work.

[artaxerxes]

If you are Moslem Artax, things have happened in the past couple of years in Denmark that you will have noticed and with Ibrahim being originally Kuwaiti (as his name hints), he likely is Moslem. So will most Danes like you and me, but since this is not a political forum we should not discuss that here. I just point out that things do happen in Denmark, depends on your perspective whether you notice.

That being said I would love to see an accurate representation of Danish landscape, as I would of landscape anywhere, but Denmark is the only place I know well enough to nitpick ;-)

Alright, 1) apologies to whoever may have been offended by previous comments of mine, and 2) apologies to anybody who may be offended by this message. Sorry. I don't come to this forum to make enemies or provoke people. We just established that Denmark has ONE river. I will also note that it has NO mountains - there is one hill which we debate may be a mountain, but you get the general idea: small country, not very exciting. And if you're outside the capitol, even more so.
I'm not trying to discuss politics, I've looked through my replies and I see no political views expressed anywhere. When I said "nothing ever happens in Denmark", it's like Luke Skywalker in Star Wars saying "well, if there's a bright and shiny centre in the universe, you're on the planet farthest from it" <- that doesn't mean literally nothing happens on Tatooine (there seems to happen an extraordinarily lot actually), but it means it's not the centre of the world. I said the same of Denmark, it was a jolly piece of making fun of my own country, and my apologies for any malign effects thereof, but though I now understand what the talking was about (and until now, I honestly had no idea, I wasn't faking it), I'm still at loss as to how that connects to my message. It wasn't a serious denial of the occurence of any event whatsoever in Denmark. If anybody have been insulted, I deeply regret not having been clearer in my remarks or better at getting the clue, but I've decided to post this message here and not in a PM, because this message, as all before, has NO political view whatsoever, and has no intention of provoking anybody. If anybody found politics in this thread, I was not the one who introduced them, and I at least hope to make that clear. Sorry


Hehe, I actually never thought of Gudenåen missing until you mentioned it... And even if I had, I wouldn't have dared mention it in here, I'm all too much in awe of the EB team Also, I'm just grateful the country's there at all, as most games with maps of Europe usually cuts Denmark in half and lets the northern part be off the map or something. I know Northern Jutland was excommunicated in the Middle Ages, and therefor it's replaced by water on many Medieval maps. I don't know why the computer industry still retain this practice ;) Maybe they use Medieval Maps for their own maps, to add to the authenticity

[cmacq]

It's a good point, good that someone noticed, and I'm not totally sure, but I remember seeing this river issue addressed somewhere. I’m just surprised no one has seen the missing ‘Tail,’ as this was normally a very dangerous passage, until recently. I suppose that’s why part of those pesky Vandals found themselves shipwrecked there for so many years. Those that know Denmark, will understand.

CmacQ

[Ibrahim]

@arta: nah! no one was offended, so its ok. didn't you get the PM?

anyways, I attribute the leaving out of the area of Scandinavia not to any excommunication practice (we live in the year 2009), but rather to the fact that simply put, people who think of 272BC don't normally think Scandinavia (I'm sure there is a small minority out there who do, but not a very profitable one).

In fact, not many people even bother looking there (unless you went measuring the coastline length, like I did). So perhaps its a good thing macrille noticed the error now-If not, no one I doubt would have, let alone post it here. Afterall, the goal of EB is accuracy, so why not fix the river now? or at least when EB2 comes out?

so, If anyone wants, I did post the links on how to, so that if anywone wants to go ahead, it can be done in a giffy.

[cmacq]

This may help those who might want to change it.




CmacQ

[Macilrille]

HOLLY CRAP are you guys honestly battling it out on EB about a rivers position during the ice age till now!! WAR Macilrille!!

This needs to be added to the "You know you've played to much EB when" forum.

If I did not care about accuracy I would be a very bad historian...

I am very busy ATM, but I will be back with a vengeance soon, for I am a warrior indeed, and I do not mind correcting or discussing with anyone, if they are wrong and I can help, of course I do so. ;-)


www.ask-viking.dk, www.ask-vikingekampgruppe.dk

Joe this link might interest you, all finds in Denmark ever, http://www.dkconline.dk/html/menu1/GeoSearch.htm it is in Danish though.

I have tried to actually find a good pic of a map of Gudenåen, but has been sort of unable to, this one shows the topography of Denmark http://www.revisions-partner.dk/Danmarkskort.jpg but the hilly terrain obscures Gudenåen.

[artaxerxes]

@arta: nah! no one was offended, so its ok.

Ok thx. Bloody internet. You never know when comments are off-hand and when they're serious or when they're malicious or casual. So I for some reason thought there was a conflict where there wasn't one (am I beginning to act like the Hayasdan AI or what?)

unless you went measuring the coastline length, like I did:shame

Right now I have a picture in my mind of you with a Very Long measuring tape or an Abnormally large ruler, walking round the entire coast. Please rectify that image, cos it's freaking me out

[Ibrahim]

Right now I have a picture in my mind of you with a Very Long measuring tape or an Abnormally large ruler, walking round the entire coast. Please rectify that image, cos it's freaking me out

actually, I was told that norway's coastline was longer than the US's, so I went with a cartographers tools, and started measuring with a measuring tape and a ruler (on a 1:500 mi scale map).

It took a week, and I made a couple of screwups (I was only 10), but I managed to indeed discover that they do have a long coastline. longer than the US's? I wasn't able to tell, as I keeled over and fell asleep, before I could satrt the US's coast.

I also measured Denmark and Sweden's coatline, because I was up for hours on end without sleep.

[bovi]

Afterall, the goal of EB is accuracy, so why not fix the river now?

We don't have any mapper on EB1 anymore. This is also the reason why we aren't fixing the weirdness in and around Alexandria and certain landbridges.

[Lysimachos]

actually, I was told that norway's coastline was longer than the US's, so I went with a cartographers tools, and started measuring with a measuring tape and a ruler (on a 1:500 mi scale map).

It took a week, and I made a couple of screwups (I was only 10), but I managed to indeed discover that they do have a long coastline. longer than the US's? I wasn't able to tell, as I keeled over and fell asleep, before I could satrt the US's coast.

I also measured Denmark and Sweden's coatline, because I was up for hours on end without sleep.

Congratulations, Sir, you are now officially crazy

At least if you weren't before...

[Mediolanicus]

I hope you didn't forget to measure the coast line of Spitsbergen, because without it it would have been very close call between Norway and USA indeed.

[bovi]

Never apply yourself to gathering gepgraphy statistics. Others have invariably done so before you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...h_of_coastline

[Ibrahim]

Never apply yourself to gathering gepgraphy statistics. Others have invariably done so before you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...h_of_coastline

aye what an ass am I!

well, that was years ago...

at least the measurments are close ( I got 25,000)