Gaza again

Originally Posted by CountArach

No. Just no. Think about it - why would people become radicals WITHOUT ANY REASON?

yes. just yes.
my answer to you: indoctrination.
there will be a reason. israel is the reason behind all this. even if israel didnt launch the attacks, they would still hate israel.
hamas hates israel- well known.
put yourself in the mind of a hamas fighter, fighting to get rid of israel.
you hear that israel is giving in to hamas demands. is there less of a will to fight, or are you energized to keep going?

lets put it in western terms:
its color war in your school. your team has suffered two defeats in a row. but then the other team goes lax. are you energized to fight harder, or do you weaken or do you have less of a will to fight?

and btw, people dont always need reasons to do things.

Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

They don't without any reason. But if they finally see they can win, Hamas may well see a boost from those who want to see Israel destroyed, but weren't keen on joining a futile cause. Hence, boosted recruitment for Hamas. I can certainly see Hooah's point.

But that implies that they actually win a victory. Which implies that military action was used, which is against the scenario put forth in the first place.

you dont need a real victory to claim it.

no, not that. you may not agree now, but if there were terrorist attacks in your area, you would demand your government to do something.

I would demand they do something that might work , not demand they do the same things again that they already know don't work .

its a 50-50 chance.

No it isn't , its a 100% chance that carrying on doing the things that don't work won't work .

if israel doesnt do anything theres a big chance that more radicals will emerge.

Who on earth said anything about not doing anything ?
Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

people will see that israel is weak

People have already seen that , it has been evident for a long time

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

Oh my, that must be your 356th attempt to introduce some reason. I admire your Irish pluck, but don't you ever get weary of the irrelevant answers you get?

Hold on to that fox hat.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

Succinctly put

Originally Posted by Adrian II

Oh my, that must be your 356th attempt to introduce some reason. I admire your Irish pluck, but don't you ever get weary of the irrelevant answers you get?

Hold on to that fox hat.

Reason? More like Pinko-hippie bull corn. See this what there teaching them kids in them dar skools. You hate America boy?

Succinctly put

No if I was being succinct I would have just wrote "bollox" as that really is precise and compact

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

From a vaguely famous dice thrower.

Originally Posted by Papewaio

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

From a vaguely famous dice thrower.

Taking into account the profession in question, it is quite possible to achieve different results with the same routine.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Who on earth said anything about not doing anything ?
Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

once again, were back to this.
i see two options:

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?
2)military- israel uses force.

i keep asking you that is military force isnt working, and nor is diplomacy, what should israel do?
you still havent answered it.

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?

What ceasefire ?
You didn't understand earlier but I might as well try again just to see if something will eventually register in your mind .
The ceasefire was a unilateral declaration .
It had terms and conditions .
If those terms are not met then the declaration is null and void .

Simple isn't it , can you grasp it yet ?
The ceasefire was conditional on the removal of the troops and the opening of the crossings ...the crossings are closed so there is no ceasefire

Originally Posted by hooahguy

once again, were back to this.
i see two options:

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?
2)military- israel uses force.

i keep asking you that is military force isnt working, and nor is diplomacy, what should israel do?
you still havent answered it.

How about he answers that question once some deplomacy has actually been used and failed?

So you say they're not holding that ceasefire, well, there are some issues that made them fire rockets in the first place, instead of addressing them Israel made those issues even worse, then goes for a ceasefire and now you expect them to be calm for a few years and hold that ceasefire and be diplomatic? In case you haven't noticed, the constant bombing makes the Palestinian issues even worse.
Which means their reason for being angry is not gone, it is stronger than it was before. Maybe if Israel actually made sure Palestinians get solid homes, land to live on(the land that israeli settlers have illegally taken would be nice), water to drink and electric energy, maybe then if Hamas grows stronger and attacks increased significantly, maybe then you'd have a reason to say they're ungrateful swine or something like that, I might even agree with you then. But as long as you herd them like cattle you cannot expect them to behave like humans.

Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

Taking into account the profession in question, it is quite possible to achieve different results with the same routine.

Touche, but the point is thatn you roll a six sided dice numbered 1 to 6 you don't should not expect a rainbow.

Originally Posted by Husar

How about he answers that question once some deplomacy has actually been used and failed?

So you say they're not holding that ceasefire, well, there are some issues that made them fire rockets in the first place, instead of addressing them Israel made those issues even worse, then goes for a ceasefire and now you expect them to be calm for a few years and hold that ceasefire and be diplomatic? In case you haven't noticed, the constant bombing makes the Palestinian issues even worse.
Which means their reason for being angry is not gone, it is stronger than it was before. Maybe if Israel actually made sure Palestinians get solid homes, land to live on(the land that israeli settlers have illegally taken would be nice), water to drink and electric energy, maybe then if Hamas grows stronger and attacks increased significantly, maybe then you'd have a reason to say they're ungrateful swine or something like that, I might even agree with you then. But as long as you herd them like cattle you cannot expect them to behave like humans.

QTF:

The dipolmatic efforts are forever being undercut and sabotaged by assassinations; ground offensives, settler expansion and blocking border crossings not to mention big walls taking the only land that can produce anything of value along with the water...

For anything to work both sides need to see a benefit to peace; currently any halt to the violence only benefits the Israelis.

Originally Posted by Beren Son Of Barahi

QTF:

The dipolmatic efforts are forever being undercut and sabotaged by assassinations; ground offensives, settler expansion and blocking border crossings not to mention big walls taking the only land that can produce anything of value along with the water...

For anything to work both sides need to see a benefit to peace; currently any halt to the violence only benefits the Israelis.

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

Launching an attack is so much easier than engaging in difficult diplomacy. Just like some of the sniping in this thread is so much easier than writing a well thought out, rational argument for your point of view.

So spake the clown.
Back to the NotW thread.

Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

I didn't mean to just blame the Israelis, It happens on both sides. Militants break ceasefires all the time; but in the end what else can they do? i mean really what options do they have in order to try and get what they want/need in the current environment. I am not taking sides i am just pointing out what i see as the realities of the situations. Also its just that Israel is in a much better position to negotiate and as such should be the ones to take the first steps in showing that peace can be a good thing. The Palestinians do not have much to give up or add to a peace deal except the removal of violence. If that makes sense, the less you have to offer the more likely you will be to hang on to it until you are sure it is worth giving up?

Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

It is more than a well founded statement to say that, the only reason the Palestinian government continues to sanction suicide bombers is because of Israel's commitment to keep them going.

So...
Which government has more blood on its hands?
The answer is the Israeli one.

Israel's policy, hooah, has clearly got nothing to do with effectiveness or the security of Israeli "settlements", it has everything to do with the interests of a cabal of wanna-be oligarchic nutters and their racist ideology of zionism and Greater Israel.

I do not mean to offend you, but I expect I will, but you have been smothered with Israeli and Western propaganda, so much so that you seem to believe that the Israeli government has the interests of the nation first in their minds.

So, while they continue to further their personal objectives, you and people like you are the ones who recieve the rockets and suffer the horror of bus bombings.

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

These options being? Why don't you just answer Hooahguy's question instead of pulling up the usual smokescreen.

And I don't want to see an '?' at the end of it.

Why don't you just answer Hooahguy's question instead of pulling up the usual smokescreen.

Because it was gibberish not a question

Originally Posted by Fragony

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

These options being? Why don't you just answer Hooahguy's question instead of pulling up the usual smokescreen.

And I don't want to see an '?' at the end of it.

Umm, well, open up the checkpoints? It would seem that might have meant a ceasfire?
Stop the illegal occupation of lands outside the UN recognised borders?
Dissarm itself of illegal nuclear weapons?
Recompense for the Palestinian people who had their ancestral lands stolen by zionists?

Give up all claims on Jerusalem, it needs to always be kept an international city under the rule of the UN and the guidance of the three religions, niether the Palestinians nor Israelis can claim Jerusalem.

It is ours (christian, muslim and jew) collectively.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Because it was gibberish not a question

So, what are the other options.

but don't you ever get weary of the irrelevant answers you get?

Well I hate to say it Adrian , but you were right .
Look at your compatriots latest efforts

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Well I hate to say it Adrian , but you were right .
Look at your compatriots latest efforts

Nownow your a big boy you don't need AdrainII's aproval.

So, the options.

Als u hersenen had zou het een antwoord kunnen waard zijn

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Als u hersenen had zou het een antwoord kunnen waard zijn

I have gotten so many personal attacks from you that I started to enjoy it so thanks for the latest.

So, the options?

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Als u hersenen had zou het een antwoord kunnen waard zijn

I have gotten so many personal attacks from you that I started to enjoy it so thanks for the latest.

So, the options?


edit, heyyyy you use a translator you don't speak dutch it's google-kung-fu. I guess the debate you saw where Wilders was pwned had subtitles?

Fragony, the options have already been named in this thread, numerous times, and instead of addressing them you keep harassing Tribes...

Don't bother Husar , he has a mental block .
Its a simple process , so simple that anyone with a functioning brain should be able to understand .
Option A doesn't work , it will never work .
Option B has been shown to work repeatedly .
If in this instance option B fails to deliver the required results at the first attempt then you try option B again because option Awill never work .