Gaza again

[Tribesman]

no, not that. you may not agree now, but if there were terrorist attacks in your area, you would demand your government to do something.

I would demand they do something that might work , not demand they do the same things again that they already know don't work .

its a 50-50 chance.

No it isn't , its a 100% chance that carrying on doing the things that don't work won't work .

if israel doesnt do anything theres a big chance that more radicals will emerge.

Who on earth said anything about not doing anything ?
Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

people will see that israel is weak

People have already seen that , it has been evident for a long time

[Adrian II]

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

Oh my, that must be your 356th attempt to introduce some reason. I admire your Irish pluck, but don't you ever get weary of the irrelevant answers you get?

Hold on to that fox hat.

[Strike For The South]

Oh my, that must be your 356th attempt to introduce some reason. I admire your Irish pluck, but don't you ever get weary of the irrelevant answers you get?

Hold on to that fox hat.

Reason? More like Pinko-hippie bull corn. See this what there teaching them kids in them dar skools. You hate America boy?

[Papewaio]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

From a vaguely famous dice thrower.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

From a vaguely famous dice thrower.

Taking into account the profession in question, it is quite possible to achieve different results with the same routine.

[Papewaio]

Taking into account the profession in question, it is quite possible to achieve different results with the same routine.

Touche, but the point is thatn you roll a six sided dice numbered 1 to 6 you don't should not expect a rainbow.

[CountArach]

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

Succinctly put

[Tribesman]

Succinctly put

No if I was being succinct I would have just wrote "bollox" as that really is precise and compact

[Hooahguy]

Who on earth said anything about not doing anything ?
Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

once again, were back to this.
i see two options:

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?
2)military- israel uses force.

i keep asking you that is military force isnt working, and nor is diplomacy, what should israel do?
you still havent answered it.

[Tribesman]

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?

What ceasefire ?
You didn't understand earlier but I might as well try again just to see if something will eventually register in your mind .
The ceasefire was a unilateral declaration .
It had terms and conditions .
If those terms are not met then the declaration is null and void .

Simple isn't it , can you grasp it yet ?
The ceasefire was conditional on the removal of the troops and the opening of the crossings ...the crossings are closed so there is no ceasefire

[Husar]

once again, were back to this.
i see two options:

1) diplomacy, and hope to high heaven that hamas keeps its word. about this cease-fire in effect right now, hamas isnt holding it. so i guess that isnt so effective, is it?
2)military- israel uses force.

i keep asking you that is military force isnt working, and nor is diplomacy, what should israel do?
you still havent answered it.

How about he answers that question once some deplomacy has actually been used and failed?

So you say they're not holding that ceasefire, well, there are some issues that made them fire rockets in the first place, instead of addressing them Israel made those issues even worse, then goes for a ceasefire and now you expect them to be calm for a few years and hold that ceasefire and be diplomatic? In case you haven't noticed, the constant bombing makes the Palestinian issues even worse.
Which means their reason for being angry is not gone, it is stronger than it was before. Maybe if Israel actually made sure Palestinians get solid homes, land to live on(the land that israeli settlers have illegally taken would be nice), water to drink and electric energy, maybe then if Hamas grows stronger and attacks increased significantly, maybe then you'd have a reason to say they're ungrateful swine or something like that, I might even agree with you then. But as long as you herd them like cattle you cannot expect them to behave like humans.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

How about he answers that question once some deplomacy has actually been used and failed?

So you say they're not holding that ceasefire, well, there are some issues that made them fire rockets in the first place, instead of addressing them Israel made those issues even worse, then goes for a ceasefire and now you expect them to be calm for a few years and hold that ceasefire and be diplomatic? In case you haven't noticed, the constant bombing makes the Palestinian issues even worse.
Which means their reason for being angry is not gone, it is stronger than it was before. Maybe if Israel actually made sure Palestinians get solid homes, land to live on(the land that israeli settlers have illegally taken would be nice), water to drink and electric energy, maybe then if Hamas grows stronger and attacks increased significantly, maybe then you'd have a reason to say they're ungrateful swine or something like that, I might even agree with you then. But as long as you herd them like cattle you cannot expect them to behave like humans.

QTF:

The dipolmatic efforts are forever being undercut and sabotaged by assassinations; ground offensives, settler expansion and blocking border crossings not to mention big walls taking the only land that can produce anything of value along with the water...

For anything to work both sides need to see a benefit to peace; currently any halt to the violence only benefits the Israelis.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

QTF:

The dipolmatic efforts are forever being undercut and sabotaged by assassinations; ground offensives, settler expansion and blocking border crossings not to mention big walls taking the only land that can produce anything of value along with the water...

For anything to work both sides need to see a benefit to peace; currently any halt to the violence only benefits the Israelis.

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

[Gregoshi]

Launching an attack is so much easier than engaging in difficult diplomacy. Just like some of the sniping in this thread is so much easier than writing a well thought out, rational argument for your point of view.

So spake the clown.
Back to the NotW thread.

[Beren Son Of Barahi]

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

I didn't mean to just blame the Israelis, It happens on both sides. Militants break ceasefires all the time; but in the end what else can they do? i mean really what options do they have in order to try and get what they want/need in the current environment. I am not taking sides i am just pointing out what i see as the realities of the situations. Also its just that Israel is in a much better position to negotiate and as such should be the ones to take the first steps in showing that peace can be a good thing. The Palestinians do not have much to give up or add to a peace deal except the removal of violence. If that makes sense, the less you have to offer the more likely you will be to hang on to it until you are sure it is worth giving up?

[Incongruous]

It is more than a little much to blame every single failure of diplomacy on the Israelis.

It is more than a well founded statement to say that, the only reason the Palestinian government continues to sanction suicide bombers is because of Israel's commitment to keep them going.

So...
Which government has more blood on its hands?
The answer is the Israeli one.

Israel's policy, hooah, has clearly got nothing to do with effectiveness or the security of Israeli "settlements", it has everything to do with the interests of a cabal of wanna-be oligarchic nutters and their racist ideology of zionism and Greater Israel.

I do not mean to offend you, but I expect I will, but you have been smothered with Israeli and Western propaganda, so much so that you seem to believe that the Israeli government has the interests of the nation first in their minds.

So, while they continue to further their personal objectives, you and people like you are the ones who recieve the rockets and suffer the horror of bus bombings.

[Fragony]

Can't you understand that there are more options than just following the failed process of escalation?

These options being? Why don't you just answer Hooahguy's question instead of pulling up the usual smokescreen.

And I don't want to see an '?' at the end of it.