An LS question

[Megas Methuselah]

@RA:

IIRC, someone on these forums said the Romans, being Romans, copied the eastern lamellar armour (such as those arm guards you mentioned), and made the LS out of that idea.

[oudysseos]

Armour with large segments was definitely not unique to the lorica segmentata, as the Dendra Panoply shows: this does not mean that the Romans didn't come up with it on their own. They didn't even know about the Dendra suit, as it has been dated to 15th century BCE. Here are some pics



A possible clue is that 'segmentata' is not what the Romans called it at all: they may have called it lorica laminata, but it was latin-speaking scholars studying Trajans Column in the 16th century who named it 'segmentata'.

[Ludens]

Armour with large segments was definitely not unique to the lorica segmentata, as the Dendra Panoply shows: this does not mean that the Romans didn't come up with it on their own. They didn't even know about the Dendra suit, as it has been dated to 15th century BCE.

I am not sure if the Dendra Panoply is a good example. AFAIK this is the only armour of this type ever to be found, and nobody knows what it was used for (too heavy to make good infantry armour, and an outright danger on a wobbly chariot).

[antisocialmunky]

The helmet isn't all that particularly great. That thing is either ceremonial, art, or for some sort of chariot bourne infantry.

[Ibrahim]

The helmet isn't all that particularly great. That thing is either ceremonial, art, or for some sort of chariot bourne infantry.

actually, IIRC, it was tested against bronze age weaponry, and it was surprisingly good (the history channel had one such experiment-though granted I don't trust them too much)

[Novellus]

The helmet isn't all that particularly great. That thing is either ceremonial, art, or for some sort of chariot bourne infantry.

Remember that when the helmet of bone is struck, it will shatter to pieces and break, rather than transfer the concussive force such as with solid metal helmets. The durability is shorter, but the energy from the blow will not have as powerful of an impact as would metal. Objects that shatter are good for dispersing energy. That is why some bullet-proof vests have a ceramic-base plate built in that breaks and shatters in the form of cracks, which allows the energy to disperse, rather than wear a completely solid and unbreaking plate that would transfer energy directly to the wearer, which causes more damage from the sheer force.

[Smeel]

And people who are stupid enough to enable someone to hit their head more than twice, full bronze helmet or not, shouldn't be too long lived on the battlefield anyway.

[oudysseos]

I don't know whether the Dendra Suit was useful or not, but I mentioned it because the OP asked if the mis-named Lorica Segmentata was the only amour made of large pieces, which it isn't. I don't think that there's any kind of explicit developmental link between them.

[MeinPanzer]

I am not sure if the Dendra Panoply is a good example. AFAIK this is the only armour of this type ever to be found, and nobody knows what it was used for (too heavy to make good infantry armour, and an outright danger on a wobbly chariot).

Actually, it is almost certain that such panoplies were borne by charioteers. What evidence do you have that Mycenaean chariots were "wobbly"? The Chinese employed a similarly heavy panoply on their charioteers for several centuries.

Other smaller parts of this type of panoply have been found over the years, but a complete panoply like the famous Dendra example has never been found elsewhere.

The helmet isn't all that particularly great. That thing is either ceremonial, art, or for some sort of chariot bourne infantry.

The helmet is composed of boar tusks, which was the norm for Mycenaean helmets and seems to have been fairly effective for bronze age warfare. Fully metal helmets don't appear until the end of the bronze age.