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    Default WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    This is a thread to discuss the composition and capabilities of the Japanese military forces during WW2.

    I have not spent nearly as much time reading about the Pacific Theatre as the European one, and the Japanese have always been slightly perplexing to me. Two general narratives seem to have emerged surrounding their forces in historical literature. I have seen them portrayed as an advanced military with an emphasis on technology, training, and daring new doctrines. In contrast, they have also been depicted as an almost primitive force – relying on outdated weaponry (including swords) and the suicidal dedication of their troops instead of proper tactics (Banzai charges).

    And it seems history bears both representations out. In the beginning of their conflict with Western powers, Japan was unquestionably dominant – in the air, land and sea, kicking the colonial powers around at will. Their emphasis on combined arms tactics (air + land, not so much armor) on land rivaled the Germans, while their carrier-born naval operations were far beyond their counterparts. This all seems to have culminated with the attack on Pearl Harbor – an excellently planned and executed attack utilizing (for the time) advanced carrier, air, and torpedo technology along with highly trained personnel.

    From there, however, it all seems to have gone downhill. Besides some notably good late war airplane designs and other advanced tech that never made it into production, Japanese weaponry seemed to lacked updates throughout the war – including small arms, artillery, and ships. More importantly, Japanese tactics and training seemed to drop off both severely and quickly.

    As opposed to the Germans who arguably maintained a technological and tactical lead on their adversaries throughout the war and were at least able to keep their troops adequately trained during the latter years, the Japanese seemed to have been quickly outclassed by their American (& Allied) counterparts and forced to resort to the suicidal tactics mentioned above. Witness the air battles around the Marianas, where the Japanese did have significant numbers of decent aircraft yet no skilled pilots; or the many island battles where American casualties were just a fraction of their Japanese rivals.

    Finally, Japanese grand strategy during the war seems questionable to me. It seems to have revolved around risky resource grabs with no real coherent and cohesive overall goal other than the creation of a vague co-prosperity sphere. To that note, was the attack on the United States necessary? I know it was based largely on the oil embargo, but was there no other way to secure those resources? Even if the US had sued for peace, it does not seem like that would have guaranteed a lifting of said embargo – as the Japanese were never truly able to threaten the continental US.

    It is obvious looking back that the Japanese were destined to lose WW2 based on their industrial capacity, and much of the reason for their military’s sad state of affairs later in the war was due to that reality, but it seems to me that their leadership made some odd and/or poor decisions, and their once dominant capabilities fell disproportionately fast.

    What do you think?

    (Some interesting pics i found... )

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
























































    Spoils...



    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 02-02-2009 at 10:50.

  2. #2
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    I agree. The Japanese original goal was to sue for peace once they took resource rich regions. They were not dumb they knew they had limitations. However the oil embargo forced there hand. In a best case scenario they wanted to cripple the pacific fleet and make the "weak" Americans open the spigot again.

    They lost there best pilots at midway and never were able to train enough again (hence the kamakazie tactics) The zero was a dang fine plane they just never really improved on it.

    Towards the end the Japanese were still hoping that the island hopping casualties would make America come to the table and they may have been right. Truman and his brain trust were arguing about the invasion. Then of course came the bomb.

    The Japanese were a good honorable enemy. But in the end the Americans simply buried them.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    The Japanese were a good honorable enemy. But in the end the Americans simply buried them.
    Their treatment of prisoners or war was repulsive as was their treatment of the Chinese people and many others. The disdain which too many Japanese of the era heaped upon anyone who was of a differing ethnicity darkens their honor.

    U.S. forces not only buried them logistically ( as we had Germany) but unlike the war in Europe we outclassed them in almost all categories from Late 1943 on.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Their treatment of prisoners or war was repulsive as was their treatment of the Chinese people and many others. The disdain which too many Japanese of the era heaped upon anyone who was of a differing ethnicity darkens their honor.

    U.S. forces not only buried them logistically ( as we had Germany) but unlike the war in Europe we outclassed them in almost all categories from Late 1943 on.
    Tough may have been a better word. I agree there is no love lost here. Many a granddad and great uncle have told me some horror stories.

    Apparently the Koreans wern't much better (according to my elders)
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

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    Clan Takiyama Senior Member CBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    All the resources they needed were located in non-US colonies so technically they did not have to attack USA. Problem was if USA was going to allow that. If not then USA both had a strong navy as well as the bases to strike back from.

    So in short term it made sense to attack USA right away, deal a blow to their navy and quickly take the Philippines.

    The big flaw was of course that they expected that USA would either sue for peace or that Japan had the capability to defend against the full might of a USA gearing up for war. I guess they expected it to be a similar situation as the war against Russia back in 1904-05.


    CBR

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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    I have similar opinion as CBR.

    I just don't understand one thing - why didn't they attack Soviet Union? Ok, they were trounced in 1939, but in in 1941 Soviets were taking a heavy beating from Germany. Wouldn't it be smarter to attack them and possibly delay American entry in the war? It would be naive to think that US would stay out of the war entirely but this could have bought months. Soviets were already pressed to their limits in Europe, no chance they could reinforce Far East and at the same time Germans might have reached Moscow...

    The other interesting what if is what would have happened if carriers were at Pearl Harbour...
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 02-02-2009 at 02:46.

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    Clan Takiyama Senior Member CBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    IIRC oil was running out so a delay would only have hurt Japan. Attacking the Soviets would also not really have benefited Japan in any way so why break the non-aggression treaty. Although I don't know how many troops were left in the far east, but in the few border skirmishes they had in the late thirties the Japanese army showed some big weaknesses so why take risks for no real benefit.

    One interesting scenario would have been if Japan did not attack USA. Could Roosevelt even get involved and declare war when America was not even interested in Europe. Even if they had and the war was long, how many losses would the public be willing to take and just how many warbonds would they have bought?


    CBR

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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    Quote Originally Posted by CBR View Post

    One interesting scenario would have been if Japan did not attack USA. Could Roosevelt even get involved and declare war when America was not even interested in Europe. Even if they had and the war was long, how many losses would the public be willing to take and just how many warbonds would they have bought?


    CBR
    As I understand, realations were already at a resounding low right before pearl harbor. Everyone knew that war was coming it was just a matter of who started it and when.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    I'll stick my in.

    It was pretty clear that the Japanese didn't have the resources to compete in a one vs one with the United States, never mind local resistances that needed to be put down, or the efforts put forth by the Commonwealth states. They couldn't afford to put forth extensive training, by all accounts. Perhaps it was the constant series of wars that had been gradually killing off their more skilled soldiery, and an inability, be it real or perceived, to put forth the resources needed to train skilled soldiers. As pointed out, the combat abilities of their pilots by late in the war were shockingly awful to anyone who had observed their campaigns over the last half-century. Particularly when oil is in short supply, it makes it extremely tough to get a lot of pilots the training needed to compete with the Allied pilots. So, basically, they stopped trying and did the most(kamikaze bombings) with what they felt they could hope to achieve.

    As for the bit about attacking the Soviets- for what? Japan had already seized Manchuria, and most of East Russia just frankly isn't worth picking a fight over, unless Tojo really fancied a summer vacation home in Siberia...

    EDIT: for the sake of scrolling sanity, could we get the pictures put in spoils?
    Last edited by seireikhaan; 02-02-2009 at 08:23.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

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    Default Re: WW2: The Composition and Capabilities of the Japanese Military

    An interesting, yet generalized, article on the Japanese marines, who made life very difficult on Tarawa. If anybody has anything more specific on the SNLF's, it would be much appreciated.

    http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/SNLF.html

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The SNLFs in combat 1941-1945


    In December 1941 several Special Naval Landing Forces participated in the Japanese invasion of the Philippines, and especially the multiple landing operations aimed at the main northern island of Luzon. The naval command had created the "Sasebo Combined Naval Landing Force" by grouping together the 1st and 2nd Sasebo SNLF's, under the command of Navy Commander Kunizo Mori. From this formation 490 men were put ashore with the first wave in Lamon Bay, while another 490 first occupied Batan Island in the Luzon Strait, then moved on (accompanied by a seaplane tender) to land on Camiguin Island, where the Japanese intended to establish a base for their floatplanes. However, the seas surrounding the island were found to be too rough for operating the seaplanes, and so the force was withdrawn to Formosa.


    The main Luzon landing at Legaspi had 575 men from the 1st Kure SNLF in its forefront. Another 245 men of the 1st Kure accompanied the third Luzon landing at Davao, and then reboarded their ships and occuppied Jolo Island. The 2nd Yokosuka SNLF acted in a conventional amphibious role to occupy Calayan Island in the Luzon Strait, where the Japanese hastily hacked out a small emergency landing strip, before returning to their base on Formosa. A smaller, more improvised SNLF known as the Amatsukaze SNLF-- organized from shipboard marine contingents from the cruiser Jintsu and the destroyer Kuroshio, and composed of less than 30 men-- also landed in the Davao area, its mission to release Japanese civilians who had been interned by the Filipinos. It set 29 Japanese nationals free. A day earlier the Bandasan SNLF, comprising about 60 men from the same two ships, also landed at Davao with the same intent, and "liberated" two locations where Japanese had been interned, rescuing a total of 435 Japanese civilians. But these ad hoc landing forces were not really in the same category as the standard SNLF's, and were essentially one-shot expedients scared up to deal with a specific situation [ 1 ].


    Meanwhile, also in December 1941, the Maizuru Independent SNLF Company provided 350 men (plus one company of 6th Base Force with 310 men) to attack the US Pacific outpost of Wake Island. When the first assault was repulsed by the determined resistance of the small US Marine garrison there, reinforcements from the 2nd Maizuru SNLF, which had been part of the garrison force at the Japanese Navy's main central Pacific base of Truk, were sent in to finally overwhelm the outnumbered Americans and secure the island.


    Operations aimed against Dutch East Indies and the great oil supplies Japan coveted also began in December 1941, and again the Special Naval Landing Forces were in the forefront. The 2nd Yokosuka SNLF naval infantrymen came in by boat to land at Miri in British Borneo, and within two and a half hours had secured its objective, the Lutong oil refinery. Eight days later elements of the 2nd Yokosuka SNLF carried out another landing at Kuching, the main port of south Borneo. The 1st and 2nd Kure, 1st and 2nd Sasebo, and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Yokosuka SNLF's were all detailed for the prolonged Indonesian operations. In January 1942, the 2nd Kure SNLF (along with one Army regiment) landed at Tarakan Island, Borneo. As related in the previous post concerning airborne operations, the 1st Yokosuka SNLF paratroopers carried out Japan's first ever combat air drop at Menado on Celebes, on January 11th. Four hours before the airborne landings, the 1st Sasebo SNLF had come ashore by sea a bit further north. Later in the month, 1st Kure SNLF occupied Amboina Island, site of an important airfield. Finally, in late February 1942, the Sasebo Combined Special Naval Landing Force were landed amphibiously and fought as ground troops in the battle for Koepang on Timor Island. Several days before the 3rd Yokosuka SNLF (a naval parachute unit) was airdropped at Koepang, suffering heavy casualties in the forthcoming battles.


    The early successes of the SNLF's led to the creation of further such units, although it is possible that some drop-off in quality of the men's training and combat effectiveness was already noticeable in this "second wave." The Special Naval Landing Forces thus continued to play a role in Japanese Navy offensive operations, which were now concentrated primarily in the Solomons and New Guinea area. Both the older and new SNLF's became involved. The 3rd Kure SNLF led the way when the Japanese landed on Tulagi to establish a seaplane base there (also occupied the adjacent small islands of Gavutu and Tanambogo). These units put up a pretty fierce resistance against the US Marine landings there in August. Meanwhile the 5th Yokosuka SNLF was the only real fighting force established on Guadalcanal once the Japanese started to construct an airstrip there-- in contrast to the forces on and around Tulagi, these essentially melted away into the jungle when the Marines started coming ashore.


    On New Guinea, also in August 1942, the Japanese conceived a fairly ambitious island to secure Milne Bay on the island's eastern tip. The initial landing force conisted of 612 men from the 5th Kure SNLF, 197 men of the 5th Sasebo SNLF, and 362 (non-combat) troops of the 16th Naval Construction Unit. This force was commanded by Navy Commander Shojiro Hayashi. These landed from two transport ships, escorted by cruisers, in a driving rain on the night of August 25th. The plan called for an additional 353 men of the 5th Sasebo SNLF, carried in seven large wooden motor barges, to land on the Solomon Sea side and make a separate approach by marching over the mountains. But the Japanese plan miscarried almost from the start. The Allies, too, were interested in constructing an airfield at Milne Bay, and they in fact had 4,500 Australian infantry troops in the area already, along with almost the same number of artillerymen, engineers, and construction troops (including 1,300 Americans). Even after reinforcements were sent in on August 29th, in the form of 568 men from the 3rd Kure SNLF and 200 SNLF soldiers (fighting as infantry) from the 5th Yokosuka SNLF (with them arrived Navy Commander Yano, who then took over as he had seniority over Hayashi), this left the Japanese outnumbered two to one in combat troops, and almost four to one overall, hardly promising conditions for an offensive. The Japanese naval troops did put ashore two light tanks, but these soon got bogged down in deep mud and were not able to accomplish much.


    After August 1942 the Special Naval Landing Forces found themselves fighting a much different kind of war. Now they were almost exclusively involved in defensive fighting, holding various island outposts against the growing US offensive. In the Solomons, the next battle after Guadalcanal centered on New Georgia. The Japanese Navy in this area had the 6th Kure and 7th Yokosuka SNLF's (the latter sometimes cited as an example of the deficiencies in equipment, training, and hence combat performance which came to characterize SNLF operations as the war progressed). These were joined together as the 8th Combined Special Naval Landing Force, under Rear-Admiral Minoru Ota*. In the New Georgia fighting, the 6th Kure SNLF was initially on New Georgia itself (with one company on Rendova, which was actually the first island in the group attacked by the Americans). The 7th Yokosuka SNLF was brought over from the adjacent island of Kolombangara to reinforce the New Georgia force as the battle developed.


    Perhaps the most famous defensive stand by the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces came at Tarawa Atoll in November 1943. Here there were no Japanese Army troops-- only 1,497 men of the 7th Sasebo SNLF, and a little more than 1,100 members of the 3rd Special Base Unit. With more than 100 machineguns pointed at the Marine landing bases and fifty various pieces of artillery supporting them, the Japanese naval troops in their strong bunkers withstood a ferocious bombardment and still emerged to cause one of the worst bloodbaths in US military history. More than 3,000 Marines became casualties before the vicious fighting was over, one of the few times in the entire Pacific war when the Japanese forces actually inflicted greater casualties than they themselves suffered on any given island. The Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces would continue to be encountered in most subsequent major campaigns-- they were present on Saipan (where the paratroopers of the 1st and 3rd Yokosuka SNLF's, consolidated into a single unit, were essentially wiped out fighting as conventional infantry), they were on Iwo Jima Island, and naval ground troops of all kinds were very prevalent in the fighting in Manila and Manila Bay in the Phillipines (it was naval ground forces, in defiance of Yamashita's orders, who defended the city of Manila and turned it into a horrible massacre, running amok among the civilian population, about 100,000 of whom died, before the city was liberated. Naval infantry also held Corregidor and several smaller fortress islands). And there were about 10,000 naval ground troops on Okinawa, the actions of Ota's group being described done in notes. But most of the Special Naval Landing Forces and the more improvised naval ground units raised in the final two years of the war were a far cry from the well-trained units which led the way in the early successful Pacific offensives [ 2 ].
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 02-02-2009 at 22:12.

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