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Thread: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

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    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
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    Default Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Lets have a new thread for this!

    Anatolikoi Phyletai



    Basically like Drapnai in Anatolia except with 40 more people and some armor. And unlike their Kappadocian neighbors, they have AP. I first encountered them with some Spartans and they won that fight. Scary.
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    Guest desert's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    I once beat 150 of those with 40 spartans, although I was kind of cheating (by yelling "This is Sparta!" and alt-clicking on them over and over again).

    Of course, the Drapanai belong here. They're sort of like kamikaze units: they die like flies, but not before they take the enemy with them.


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    EB player Member Wausser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition



    I find the Pezhetairoi(Baktria Campaign) pretty bad the way I fight my battles(Defending in a city with stone walls) as they loose significantly more men then the Pantodapoi Phalangitai when fighting against the same unit...
    Last edited by Wausser; 02-04-2009 at 07:10.
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    Hellpuppy unleashed Member Subedei's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Wausser View Post

    I find the Pezhetairoi(Baktria Campaign) pretty bad the way I fight my battles(Defending in a city with stone walls) as they loose significantly more men then the Pantodapoi Phalangitai when fighting against the same unit...
    I think you are not supposed to use them ON the walls, as they are not flexible enough up there to use their strength being their spear/sarissa. I usually guard my city center or the gates with them. There they do a pretty good job.
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    EB player Member Wausser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Yeah that's why I said, the way I fight my battles, I beat the enemy at the walls, not in the city herself, I'd better go for the Klerouchoi Phalangitai or Pantodapoi Phalangitai since they give way better performance at the walls...
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    Guitar God Member Mediolanicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    That doesn't make the Pezhetairoi a surprisingly bad unit.

    That just makes you a surprisingly bad tactician.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    j/k ;)
    Last edited by Mediolanicus; 02-04-2009 at 09:17.
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    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Well, Pantadapoi have AP axes after all, so this explains why they fare pretty fair on the walls.
    This space intentionally left blank.

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    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by desert View Post
    I once beat 150 of those with 40 spartans, although I was kind of cheating (by yelling "This is Sparta!" and alt-clicking on them over and over again).

    Of course, the Drapanai belong here. They're sort of like kamikaze units: they die like flies, but not before they take the enemy with them.





    I have to add the uirodusios





    though they're not as good as the gaesatae, they still are extremely useful, for they scare enemies enough to make them flee much sooner as usual
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    fancy assault unit Member blank's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by SwissBarbar View Post
    I have to add the uirodusios



    though they're not as good as the gaesatae, they still are extremely useful, for they scare enemies enough to make them flee much sooner as usual
    Plus they're naked!
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    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    In the old "Surprisingly bad units"-Thread I wrote some very bad things about Thorakitai, that Thureophoroi can accomplish all of their tasks for less money. I stand corrected. In my current Epirus Campaign I use them extensively to fight the more mobile forces of Romani and Celts in Northern Italy and the Hoplite- and Thorakitai-armies of the KH. Recently, as the Seleukids betrayed me and invaded my Makedonian homelands in a field-manual-Blitzkrieg, my Thorakitai even did quite well as anvil, holding up against a Seleukid phalanx line (I put them in guard mode).
    So I recall my statement, that Thorakitai would be surprisingly bad units. They are unsurprisingly good units.

    Surprisingly good units in my Italian campaigns as Epirus were these two:

    Aichmetai Leukanoi (Lucanian Spearmen)
    They are excellent flanking infantry comparable to Peltastai and they can even hold a line (if only against non-elites), plus their spear gives them some stopping power against cavalry.


    Hippakontistai
    Seriously, they were all the cavalry I needed against the Romani. It takes a bit of practice to use them to the utmost efficiency but they are great for harassing the enemies heavy infantry, then driving off the enemy missle troops and then coming back to give the final blow to the enemy's main line by charging its back.
    Last edited by machinor; 02-04-2009 at 14:27.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreek View Post
    "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise..."
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  11. #11
    Legatvs Member SwissBarbar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by blank View Post
    Plus they're naked!
    Yeah, that's why they are so scary. It seems that Penisses were were very terrible those ages.
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    EB Traiter Member Malrubius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition



    {arabian_missile_northern_arab_levy} Giusim 'Arabim Tsphonim (Arabian Light Archer-Spearmen)
    {eastern_missile_eransahr_arshtbara} Nzagn- rnshahr (Persian Archer-Spearmen)

    Archer-Spearmen
    Whether they're called Giusim 'Arabim Tsphonim or Nzagn- rnshahr, I have found them indispensable when playing as Baktria and Saba. They are versatile and cheap, very important qualities when you're fighting the Seleukids or Ptolemies, who can afford to send stack after stack at you. I'm outnumbered and outclassed in almost every battle against them, so every man has to pull his weight and then some!

    Behind pikes, they can shoot it out with horse archers. Their arrows demolish pantadopoi and other unarmored or lightly armored foes without taking a scratch. This lets them build up experience, too. When sallying, they can pepper the backs of the more expensive phalangites as they run to take up defensive positions on a slope outside the town, and can then retreat behind the walls and do it again next season. When assaulting a town in a pitched battle, they can be used as fodder once they're out of arrows. With their spears, they can even bring down cavalry or at least keep them busy while you charge with yours. Once they've exhausted their arrows, they can flank, or chase routing foes. Don't expect miracles from them, but they deliver solid performance and are useful in all phases of the battle. To me, they also seem more steady and less prone to routing than my more expensive levies and the b'nei shevet skirmishers.

    Tip for use: Leave them on guard, not skirmish mode, unless you want them to wrap around a phalanx. Then make sure both are off and watch them poke the phalangites in the back. Another great tactic for fighting the phalanx is to split them in two directions on either side of the slower-moving phalangites, turn off fire at will, leave skirmish on, wait until the phalanxes have their backs turned, then fire away.
    Last edited by Malrubius; 02-04-2009 at 18:07. Reason: clarity

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    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    And unlike their Kappadocian neighbors, they have AP
    Actually, Katpatuka Zanteush have AP axes. They also have javelins, which makes them better against Phalangitai.

    One of my surprisingly good units would be a related one, the Kfyren- Verkhn (Hyrkanian Hillmen). Although their armour is pathetic, they are excellent for taking out heavy cavalry of all kinds. Plus they are good vs. phalanx (again, Javelins+AP axe) and readily available as mercs.




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  14. #14

    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by desert View Post
    I once beat 150 of those with 40 spartans, although I was kind of cheating (by yelling "This is Sparta!" and alt-clicking on them over and over again).

    Of course, the Drapanai belong here. They're sort of like kamikaze units: they die like flies, but not before they take the enemy with them.


    Ugh, I hate those little turds. They ripped an entire legion of fresh recruits from Capua down by half with their ferocious swing. They are always a favored merc unit of mine when in N. Greece and Illyria.

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    Haruhiist Member Zett's Avatar
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    Default AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Hippeis Xystophoroi



    They are the best cavalry unit awailable. Faster then Hetairoi and not so expensive like them. Good armor and a good charge. And a big area of recruitment.




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    Slixpoitation Member A Very Super Market's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    That doesn't seem very big...

    I would contribute, but I don't know how to get those pictures.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
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    Cool store, bro! I want some ham.
    No ham, pepsi.
    They make deli slices of frozen pepsi now? Awesome!
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    Uhh, I guess I won't have pepsi then. Do you have change for a twenty?
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  17. #17
    Haruhiist Member Zett's Avatar
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    Default AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    The unitpictures are from www.europabarbarorum.com (go to "factions", select a faction and go to "units"). And the map is from the recruitmentviewer which was within your EB1.1 installer.

    And big...yes big is relative, big for elitecavaleryunits.


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    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Hm. I neither used (never played KH so far) nor encountered them. They look like the KH-specific Hippeis Thessalikoi or Agema Klerouchikon Hippeon. Are they about they same stat-wise?
    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreek View Post
    "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise..."
    <-- My "From Basileion to Arche - A Makedonian AAR" Memorial Balloon.

  19. #19
    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Are they about they same stat-wise?
    Roughly. Hippeis Thessalikoi are a little better stat-wise. Also the colour of their horses is different.

    Speaking of KH's cavalry, I would also say that Lonchophoroi Hippeis are very good for their upkeep.




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  20. #20
    Slixpoitation Member A Very Super Market's Avatar
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    Default Re: AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Thanks Zett

    Your unit looks cool, but the horsey has no armour! Wait a minute...

    Eqvites Extraordinarii
    Strange...

    And these guys


    Not Kuna!!
    Yes, him. They would be decent in Europe, but stepp warfare is horrible for Javelin skirmishers. No armour, bad range, the Dahae riders are a lot better. High upkeep too.
    Last edited by A Very Super Market; 02-04-2009 at 17:55.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WELCOME TO AVSM
    Cool store, bro! I want some ham.
    No ham, pepsi.
    They make deli slices of frozen pepsi now? Awesome!
    You also need to purchase a small freezer for storage of your pepsi.
    It runs on batteries. You'll need a few.
    Uhh, I guess I won't have pepsi then. Do you have change for a twenty?
    You can sift through the penny jar
    ALL WILL BE CONTINUED

    - Proud Horseman of the Presence

  21. #21
    Haruhiist Member Zett's Avatar
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    Default AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    About the stats...

    From up to down: Hippies Xystophoroi (KH), Hippies Thessalikoi (Makedonia, Epeiros and KH), Agema Klerouchikon Hippeon (Ptolemaioi), Eqvites Extraordinarii (Romani), Hetairoi, Molosson Agema (Epeiros)



    (damn, its too small. I hope u have good eyes)

    Armored Horses...one of the advantages of a horse is, that you can eat it if it dies during battle. No armor means you need no can opener.
    Last edited by Zett; 02-04-2009 at 20:00.


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  22. #22

    Default Re: AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Molosson Agema. Good Stamina Shock Cavalry.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    does the Eqvites Extraordinarii have any advantage over the Hippies Thessalikoi? the EE does not seem to pay off in contrast to the others.
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  24. #24
    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Of course not... it's Roman cavalry after all. The only advantage would probably be the wider AOR, as Hippeis Thessalikoi are (as the name suggests) only recruitable in Thessalia.

    I agree on the Lochnophoroi Hippeis and the Molosson Agema, but they're both no really *surprisingly* good.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreek View Post
    "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise..."
    <-- My "From Basileion to Arche - A Makedonian AAR" Memorial Balloon.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Well at the first glance, when I compared Molosson to Hetairoi I concluded they were wholly inferior in armour. However having shock cavalry that doesn't tire after two or three attacks or a brief fight is a real winner for Epeiros.

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    iudex thervingiorum Member athanaric's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    You miss the point of the Daha Skirmishers, Super Market. They are not supposed to fight Horse Archers, but rather heavy cavalry or infantry. Unlike the light HAs with their daggers or spears, Daha Skirmishers can be really dangerous even to bodyguard cavalry because they have AP axes (and javelins are better against armour than arrows). In fact, I would rather list them as a "surprisingly good" unit.




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  27. #27
    amrtaka Member machinor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Basileos ton Ellenon View Post
    Well at the first glance, when I compared Molosson to Hetairoi I concluded they were wholly inferior in armour. However having shock cavalry that doesn't tire after two or three attacks or a brief fight is a real winner for Epeiros.
    That's true, on the downside however they can only be recruited in Ambrakia.
    Quote Originally Posted by NickTheGreek View Post
    "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise..."
    <-- My "From Basileion to Arche - A Makedonian AAR" Memorial Balloon.

  28. #28
    Member Member SwebozGaztiz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    I think a really good unit would be the hoplitai haploi, theyre really good, ive been using them on my Koinon Hellenon campaign, also i think the machimoi hippeis are really good to be light cavalry, they have those ap axes for close combat, although if you leave them for too much they will die easily but they can fare well. And well also two of my favorite units are the hoplitai and the teurophoroi they can be first line units and hold them quite well






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  29. #29

    Default Re: AW: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Zett View Post
    About the stats...

    From up to down: Hippies Xystophoroi (KH), Hippies Thessalikoi (Makedonia, Epeiros and KH), Agema Klerouchikon Hippeon (Ptolemaioi), Eqvites Extraordinarii (Romani), Hetairoi, Molosson Agema (Epeiros)



    (damn, its too small. I hope u have good eyes)

    Armored Horses...one of the advantages of a horse is, that you can eat it if it dies during battle. No armor means you need no can opener.
    where did you get this file from?
    looks neat

  30. #30
    Member Member TheStranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Surprisingly Good and Bad Units 1.2 Edition

    In your start menu where you have installed EB there is beside the recruitment viewer the units list and unit compare ;)

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