Battle Time Length?

[Noir]

While Knoddy refers to the battle time limit which is very important too ofcourse - as pevergreen notes this thread is about the (average i guess) battle length - how long a typical battle will last.

Noir

[Durango]

While Knoddy refers to the battle time limit which is very important too ofcourse - as pevergreen notes this thread is about the (average i guess) battle length - how long a typical battle will last.

Noir

While it may be that a typical battle may not last longer than ten minutes, I am personally curious as to how the game will play out with the "do you want to declare war?" mechanic added to the attacking phase. Meaning that one can no longer send stacks across the border of a rival faction and wander the land. I hope the AI is less prone to attacking the player now that the process of fighting someone is more....resolute and also with the naval battles as someone mentioned.

Hopefully (not that it would happen), I would very much like to see the return of the maneuver-heavy battles from MTW and STW. We might get an increase in time by a couple of minutes due to ranged combat playing a greater role, though.

Unless CA is planning to overplay the power of the bayonet charge and have units run at the speed of coked up quarterbacks....

[ArtillerySmoke]

Great responses in this thread. Thanks guys.

For clarification: Yes, I am indeed talking about average battle length. Sure you can turn off battle time limit but that has no effect on how fast units move, die, etc.

I guess all we can do is hope. As someone said though, I fondly remember the days of maneuver heavy battles from MTW.

On top of this, hopefully CA does not include some insane code that limits the amount of units that can participate in the battle. We had to turn unlimited men on battlefield on in the preference cfg with M2TW in order to allow this to happen. Not that this is a huge issue, but I hope the "out of the box" vanilla features unlimited men as standard. Several stack battles with waves of reinforcements would guarantee long battles later in our campaigns.

We'll see what CA does. I just hope the campaign and battles don't move at the speed of light to get to the meat and potatoes of the battles. That's only a fraction of what playing this game is about.

[Durango]

For clarification: Yes, I am indeed talking about average battle length. Sure you can turn off battle time limit but that has no effect on how fast units move, die, etc.

I share your concerns overall, and additionally I hope to see more dynamic (and in a way, more punishing) gameplay in terms of move and kill ratios.

Meaning that for example, an 18 lb:er firing canister shot at a column of men a certain distance away have a fairly great range a possible effects, due to weather/training/fatigue/elevation and pure chance.

If the odds are stacked against you, there is no telling if the fire will be quite as effective as you expect.

This is of course a regular and constant feature of the Total War series, but I feel that for ETW, this should be even more pronounced due to the more rigid nature of gunpowder. Hit and miss should be calculated with numbers and statistics in the background, just like the older games (In M2TW, you had animations as a factor in fighting, which at times produced game-ruining effects).

We'll see what CA does. I just hope the campaign and battles don't move at the speed of light to get to the meat and potatoes of the battles. That's only a fraction of what playing this game is about.

The most enjoyable way to play a TW game, is IMHO as a political simulator, in a way. Not purely management, as Civilisation, but heavily centered around diplomacy, religion, family dynasties and such.

Going out and randomly conquering is much less gratifying than having roleplayed different reasons for fighting (just as real life, war starts for a specific reason, not just for the sake of it). My empires are almost always one of the smaller ones on the map, as I in a Machiavellian way try to unbalance factions that are too big for their boots, and rarely do I gather my full army and go on a slaughtering rampage.

For just the right challenge, I often only attack with an army about 1/3 the size of the enemy. That is in MTW, mind you. In RTW, you can send forth your factionleader's wife equipped with a butterknife and still, claim victory!

[Fisherking]

If you are playing correctly then it may drag on infinitum. With all of the hedges, hills, and possibly entrenchments, maneuver can go on and on.

Of course if you charge into canister you might find it ending quicker than you would like…

[Sir Beane]

The most enjoyable way to play a TW game, is IMHO as a political simulator, in a way. Not purely management, as Civilisation, but heavily centered around diplomacy, religion, family dynasties and such.

Going out and randomly conquering is much less gratifying than having roleplayed different reasons for fighting (just as real life, war starts for a specific reason, not just for the sake of it). My empires are almost always one of the smaller ones on the map, as I in a Machiavellian way try to unbalance factions that are too big for their boots, and rarely do I gather my full army and go on a slaughtering rampage.

For just the right challenge, I often only attack with an army about 1/3 the size of the enemy. That is in MTW, mind you. In RTW, you can send forth your factionleader's wife equipped with a butterknife and still, claim victory!

This is exactly the way I play the game. I often play merely to see what happens, rather than to go conquering the whole world.

A favourite game of mine is to play as a faction that can easily defend it's position (England is best for this). I build up my economy early on, take all of Britain and Ireland as soon as possible, and then focus on building up a trading Empire.

After I'm rolling in florins I use bribery, agents, diplomacy and a small but high tech elite army to mess around with the rest of Europe. It's fun to cause wars, give random factions provinces in odd places, launch crusades at strange targets and occasionally invade the mainland for a laugh and then give the land I take to the Pope.

I very rarely end up actually winning these games (although I could If I actually tried) but it's rather a lot of fun just messing around creating a story within the campaign. If Englang had been ruled my way for the Medieval period history would be much, much more intersting.

[Durango]

This is exactly the way I play the game. I often play merely to see what happens, rather than to go conquering the whole world.

Yeah, and the other factions are also interesting to watch as much as your own

In ETW, the possibilities are greater since the cultures of all the factions are more diverse. We could for example play as a European nation, and then abandon our capital after settling in the forests of North America! This way, an "empire in exile" could try to co-exist with the natives instead of subduing them. Maybe even try to be like them and fight off all your fellow European nations?

A favourite game of mine is to play as a faction that can easily defend it's position (England is best for this). I build up my economy early on, take all of Britain and Ireland as soon as possible, and then focus on building up a trading Empire.

England is surely a favourite faction for me too, really good strategic position and very interesting unit roster as well. Sometimes I keep Scottish rebels around just to try and roleplay the rebellions there throughout the period

"The trouble with Scotland....... its that it's full of Scots!"

After I'm rolling in florins I use bribery, agents, diplomacy and a small but high tech elite army to mess around with the rest of Europe. It's fun to cause wars, give random factions provinces in odd places, launch crusades at strange targets and occasionally invade the mainland for a laugh and then give the land I take to the Pope.

Ah, creating an army of battle-hardened Grognards from your very best troops have always been one of the pleasures of the Total War series, and ETW will even add to this by allowing us to name the units! Much rejoicing I have felt at such a simple feature, but the small things really matter. And as you said, "messing" rather than destroying is my Modus Operandi for maximum fun

I very rarely end up actually winning these games (although I could If I actually tried) but it's rather a lot of fun just messing around creating a story within the campaign. If Englang had been ruled my way for the Medieval period history would be much, much more intersting.

Winning? No, no, winning is not the point. The journey is the goal, man. Awaiting bizarre and unexpected things to happen while I am just one of many factions in the political snakepit that is Europe is the real beauty of the game! Sometimes I also play according to the V&V/Traits of the ruling family (not just the king, but generals and princes also). Piety through the roof? Crusades it is then! And even trying your own family and friends for heresy - and the Pope must be obeyed!

Ha, ha, I have such an urge to play now, it's sickening!

On topic now. I want battle times in the range of about 20 minutes realistically speaking. That is, what we can expect given the lengths of battles in previous games. And something which ties into this is the frequency of battles in the campaign game. Personally, having to fight smaller engagements is fun when I choose to do so, which is the difference between the old RTW engine and what I hope the new will deliver.

There should be small, optional battles. Almost like missions, that give a reward. Not purely a threat, since small skirmishes are by definition not threatening but only irritating if you have to fight. Say that a band of pirates pop up that mainly harasses your allies' fleets. Since I love the feeling of helping allies, they would present a neat oppurtunity for glory and practice. Contrast this with having the pirates constantly bothering only you...

Now, big battles should be DECISIVE and important. I also like units to be expensive and valuable so that you feel more attached to them. In fact, I have modded the MedMod for MTW:VI to have higher costs and upkeep, and longer training times to make gameplay more realistic. Immersion is lost to me
when you can just pump units to no end. I want planning to factor in, and want to be distressed when my "Garde Imperiale" is annihilated in a glorious charge against the thin red line.

[KozaK13]

I think 20 mins would be a max, after all, who knows what will pop up in real life when your in the middle of a battle.