Best ways to use Hypaspistai + Peltastai Makedonikoi

[Conan]

Hi guys,

Since it seem the only real difference between Hypaspistai + Peltastai Makedonikoi is there equipment. What is the best way to use each one?

Since Hypaspistai are heavier are they best used in the thick of any assault? With Peltastai Makedonikoi best used as elite light infantry?

I've never really used either in a campaign as of yet (I've recruited one unit of Peltastai Makedonikoi although not yet used them in battle.) so what is the best way to used these elite Hellenistic infantry?

Another question I guess I should ask on the matter is which one is the better unit?

Thanks

[Maion Maroneios]

Hi guys,

Since it seem the only real difference between Hypaspistai + Peltastai Makedonikoi is there equipment. What is the best way to use each one?

Since Hypaspistai are heavier are they best used in the thick of any assault? With Peltastai Makedonikoi best used as elite light infantry?

I've never really used either in a campaign as of yet (I've recruited one unit of Peltastai Makedonikoi although not yet used them in battle.) so what is the best way to used these elite Hellenistic infantry?

Another question I guess I should ask on the matter is which one is the better unit?

Thanks

An interesting question you got there.

In my campaigns as Makedonia, I always include 1 unit of each for my Royal Armies. I use them as following:
1) Hypaspistai: Always next to the Strategos, but f there are problems in either of the flanks have trouble (or even the phalanx center) I send them in to fight. The weapon I use each time depends. If I want to hold a line, I enable shieldwall (done this myself) and alt-click the enemy to fight as a hoplite phalanx with interlocked shields. If I am surrounded or attack the rear of an enemy, I normal-click the enemy (longswords). I also use the Hypaspistai to assault fortifications, but never on walls because they won't use their swords that way.
2) Peltastai Makedonikoi: Similarly to the Hypaspistai, I have them close to the Strategos. I almost never use them to hold lines or attack an enemy head-to-head, but rather use them in special missions, like hiding in forests near the battlefield or sweeping over the enemy line that is locked with my phalanx while throwing them javelins. I also use them extensively during fortification assaults, because of their longswords. They just rock.

To cut a long story short, they are bth very good units for what they were created to do. Hypaspistai were elite infantry capable of fighting in the thickest of situations and turn the tide, while the Elite Peltastai were young men in their prime of life that should be used with caution.

Maion

[Mediolanicus]

IMO Hypaspistai should be were the heaviest fighting is going on. There where the enemies elites are or where your line is failing.

Peltastai Makedonikoi should be used as elite flankers. Covering the flanks and then pelting the back of engaged enemies, and then charging "there where the enemies elites are or where your line is failing". :p

[Tudhaliya]

I've modded my peltastai makedonikoi to make them more like their description: super-elite skirmisher support. I've given them a couple more javelins per man, reduced the armor by one point, raised the defense skill by one point, and gave them the ability to skirmish. So in my AS army, I have one unit of Akontistai, one Peltastai, and one Peltastai Makedonikoi. They all go in front of my phalanx, with the Akontistai and regular Peltastai farthest forward. If their skirmishers decide to mix it up, I destory them with the PM. If they dont come out to fight, I use the PM like a normal skirmisher. Then when everything is tied up, I use the Peltastai and PM for flanking.

[Conan]

Sound advice guys

Thanks

[Maion Maroneios]

I've modded my peltastai makedonikoi to make them more like their description: super-elite skirmisher support. I've given them a couple more javelins per man, reduced the armor by one point, raised the defense skill by one point, and gave them the ability to skirmish. So in my AS army, I have one unit of Akontistai, one Peltastai, and one Peltastai Makedonikoi. They all go in front of my phalanx, with the Akontistai and regular Peltastai farthest forward. If their skirmishers decide to mix it up, I destory them with the PM. If they dont come out to fight, I use the PM like a normal skirmisher. Then when everything is tied up, I use the Peltastai and PM for flanking.

Well, the Peltastai Makedonikoi were not exactly elite skirmishers. They were heavy infantry, their armor and equipment doesn't allow one to run back and forth lines easy, believe me.

Maion

[Mediolanicus]

Well, the Peltastai Makedonikoi were not exactly elite skirmishers. They were heavy infantry, their armor and equipment doesn't allow one to run back and forth lines easy, believe me.

Maion

And how about my use for them as elite flankers (and not skirmishers)?
A sort of reserve unit on the flanks of the line, only attacking when needed.

[Maion Maroneios]

And how about my use for them as elite flankers (and not skirmishers)?
A sort of reserve unit on the flanks of the line, only attacking when needed.

That's a good role for them, as I mentioned in my post as well. Basically you should avoid getting them tired by doing things like skirmishing and running from one place to the other to help different parts of your line. Which is what you basically do with any elite heavy infantry unit BTW

Maion

[Ludens]

IMO Hypaspistai should be were the heaviest fighting is going on. There where the enemies elites are or where your line is failing.

Peltastai Makedonikoi should be used as elite flankers. Covering the flanks and then pelting the back of engaged enemies, and then charging "there where the enemies elites are or where your line is failing". :p

I think that's the best way to use them. Hypaspists are some heaviest armoured troops on the battlefield, so they should be in the thick of the fight. AFAIK they were historically used to cover the right flank of the phalanx on the battlefield and serve as link with the king's cavalry. They could also be used to support the latter if the situation requires. Peltastai Makedonike are the assault corps, the leading unit in storming a city. I am not sure what their historical role on the battlefield was. In EB, they are somewhat lighter armoured than the hypaspists, but thanks to their AP weapon they make an excellent flanker of enemy elites. Hypaspists on the other hand perform better against lightly-armoured troops thanks to their high-lethality swords.

[Nachtmeister]

I never played with Makedonia yet, but as a KH player I fight Makedonia a lot. Most of the time, I wipe them out before they build sufficient MICs for PM or Hypaspistai... But once, in a campaign sadly cut short by a CTD, they managed to build a high MIC in Pella and create two units of PM just before I laid siege to it (with generals, thureophoroi, h. iphikratides, peltastai and sphendonetai plus some hippakontistai). The PM basically mopped the floor with everything and still inflicted very severe casualties on my generals; my army just barely survived that battle and had to be extensively retrained in spite of it being a city battle with roughly even numbers... They held out for something considerably above five minutes against most of my infantry; can't tell how long exactly because I have the battle-timer disabled (30mins is just not realistic for a siege) but it was enough for me to make myself a cup of coffee and have a smoke while on fast-forward (3x)... And they were singing a bloodthirsty battle song, cheering while cutting my troops down --- but it took many of them to cut down even one of the makedonian peltasts. Should be re-named Kreoppoleioi Makedonikoi (butchers)!
So as long as you are not attacking a phalanx head-on (although if it is not an elite phalanx, why not) you can probably kill almost anything with PM. Awesome, very *EVIL* unit.

[machinor]

I just fought a battle as Epeiros against 3 AS fullstacks. After killing the first full stack I had to retreat as the Seleukids brought in their Klerouchoi Phalangitai in vast numbers and their Argyraspidai. I retreated as much of my forces as I could. My PM stayed behind to back the retreat (actually I just completely forgot about them... it was a battle in the woods... lots of confusion). It was awesome. 6 of them held about 30 regular spearmen in check while the other 10 cut down the Seleukid general who was foolish enough to charge them. Then they retreated (retreated not fled!!) were ambushed by enemy Thorakitai (about 25 or so of them), again killed about 10 of them before they fled. Then retreated again and were again attacked by Seleukid spearmen. I send my General in to help them and his charge broke the enemy spearmen so I could retreat everyone safely.
It was an absolutely epic battle. I sent my Heir with the PM back to Pella to retrain them. Then I will give him some fresh troops, some elephants and have him return to chase those backstabbing Seleukids from Asia Minor.

[IrishHitman]

50% Phalanx + 10% Agrianians + 30% Thessalians + 10% Cretan Archers = Unbeatable.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I use Hypaspistai as the King's Own Guard. There are three regiments of which two accompany the King everywhere. In battle, they take the position of another extra heavy unit, like Cordinau Orca or Rhomphaiaphoroi, though I used to deploy them as flank guard for the phalanx in the first row but abandoned this tactics because they took too many casualties there due to the habit of the AI to gang up on your flanks. Now they still support the flanks mostly, but in a more comfortable position.

Peltastai Makedonikoi you can use best as elite flankers. I have one of them in every army and they can also serve to plug gaps or support a phalanx that has been fought down to the point where most soldiers switch to their swords.

[Nachtmeister]

50% Phalanx + 10% Agrianians + 30% Thessalians + 10% Cretan Archers = Unbeatable.

Why Thessalians? I never noticed any profound advantages or better performance when compared to normal h. xystophoroi. And as Epeiros you would have far better cavalry than that available - IIRC.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Why Thessalians? I never noticed any profound advantages or better performance when compared to normal h. xystophoroi. And as Epeiros you would have far better cavalry than that available - IIRC.

I have sworn to never ever again enter a discussion about the military worth of H. Thessalikoi. Only this: H. Thessalikoi are the Makedonian equivalent to H. Xystophoroi. You can get them as mercenaries though, but personally I don't see why any Thessalian would fight against his brethren from the north...

[Ibrahim]

Hi guys,

Since it seem the only real difference between Hypaspistai + Peltastai Makedonikoi is there equipment. What is the best way to use each one?

Since Hypaspistai are heavier are they best used in the thick of any assault? With Peltastai Makedonikoi best used as elite light infantry?

I've never really used either in a campaign as of yet (I've recruited one unit of Peltastai Makedonikoi although not yet used them in battle.) so what is the best way to used these elite Hellenistic infantry?

Another question I guess I should ask on the matter is which one is the better unit?

Thanks

I use both (especially the peltastai makedonoi), as assault troops (i.e, storm forts and cities).

their heavy armor, use of javelins, and decent attack are perfect for the role (plus the type of wepon, a sword).
in battlefield, the two are often trailing the king'g horses, so that if a cavalry from the enemy (or anything really), tries something stupid, I seperate and hose.