Of Huscarles

[caravel]

Welcome Durango,

The Pocket Mod is my own mod, so yes that would be it.

Overpowered units are overpowered units. You can slow them and you can reduce their units size, but at their root they're very imbalanced. To balance the 1087-1453 campaign, Huscarles are best removed altogether. The generic "Viking" is one of the better units with just enough edge to make it very useful. Those introduced with the VI expansion are not needed and turn any campaign as the Danes into a farce.

[Durango]

Welcome Durango,

The Pocket Mod is my own mod, so yes that would be it.

Thank you! Ah, yes I recognize you know, you used to have another name before. I've read the Pocket Mod thread some time ago and I have to say, intriguing concept to say the least

Overpowered units are overpowered units. You can slow them and you can reduce their units size, but at their root they're very imbalanced. To balance the 1087-1453 campaign, Huscarles are best removed altogether. The generic "Viking" is one of the better units with just enough edge to make it very useful. Those introduced with the VI expansion are not needed and turn any campaign as the Danes into a farce.

How about stripping them down to their underwear in the battle mode, so that they become embarrassing to use... or put silly hats on them. Or, better yet, have them be only recruitable from a special province ala the Homelands? Norway should have the honor. This way, they become somewhat un-spammable.

Meh, I've never really liked them anyway. As you say, they play out the best when out of the main campaign. They were made for clashes with the Irish and Picts in the VI expansion.

[caravel]

I've moved these post to another thread as the other was in danger of straying off topic.

I've tried reducing their unit size and making them dependant on an unique Royal Palace and only available in the Scandinavian provinces. However when it comes down to it, the extra Viking units from VI should stay in VI.

[Durango]

I've moved these post to another thread as the other was in danger of straying off topic.

I've tried reducing their unit size and making them dependant on an unique Royal Palace and only available in the Scandinavian provinces. However when it comes down to it, the extra Viking units from VI should stay in VI.

Yeah, this discussion feels like it would belong in the Pocket Mod forums.

But yes, a few units from the VI campaign should never have made it into the big one. It's funny how you sort of gravitate toward a more restrictive structure when you realize just how much more balanced the game could be. Huscarles, Javelins, even Naptha throwers and Pikemen to a degree.

Not strictly due to those units necessarliy being overpowered, but redundant within the build of the game. Huscarles chop their way through most enemies being fast, armour-piercing, and armoured themselves. Javelins and Napthas demand a greater range due to the AI's inability to skirmish, but Napthas still almost always hurt your own troops when you get the oppurtunity to use them. Pikemen are too easy too wrap with Swords and Halbs etc.

But on topic, the Huscarles would after all make an interesting BG unit for the Scandinavian factions instead of regular heavy cavalry again like in the MedMod. IF they could be balanced, which they can't obviously. Maybe only have them as mercenaries in special places and buildings reqs?

Overall, I don't really like tactics that rely on storming in and swinging axes around like some drunkard fool

Too...wasteful. I don't like too much chaos. Chaos means that a commander has lost control. I prefer luring the enemy in and waiting for just the right moment to break their morale, and Huscarles are just the opposite of that in my mind. That makes it so satisfying to smash them with Kerns.

[caravel]

This is why STW simply worked because it had that pure simplicity that is important in such a game. Every faction had the same units and none had an advantage over the other. Also there were few duplicate units as with MTW where you can train several types of javelins, spears and swords at once. This array of unit choice confuses the AI and allows the play to exploit this. VI only made this problem worse. The English for example have Fyrdmen, Spearmen and Feudal Sergeants. This is pointless.

[Durango]

This is why STW simply worked because it had that pure simplicity that is important in such a game. Every faction had the same units and none had an advantage over the other. Also there were few duplicate units as with MTW where you can train several types of javelins, spears and swords at once.

Sadly, I didn't get to play Shogun that much back in the day. I'm thinking of installing the SW mod someday though.

However, paradoxically, I do like the variety present in MTW in contrast to Shogun. Having exactly the same units available to all factions is a bit hardcore for my taste. I prefer to have a sort of "handicap" approach to the game design whereupon the factions have different strengths and weaknesses without having access to several different versions of units.

The problem with this approach is that the AI is not programmed for different strategies. If a specific faction has, for example, a unit roster heavy on missiles and cavalry the AI can't adapt to this limitation.
I enjoy having to make do with what I got, but still that is easily exploitable...

I can get around this somewhat by playing with a set of personal rules, but this isn't the optimal solution.

This array of unit choice confuses the AI and allows the play to exploit this. VI only made this problem worse. The English for example have Fyrdmen, Spearmen and Feudal Sergeants. This is pointless.

One solution for this that is in the MedMod is placing restrictions on the trainable units per era, and I'm guessing that this is either in the Pocket Mod or was considered a long time ago. It's the best way I can think of to have a line of three spears/swords/cav with only one per era. Although with the spear line of units, I imagine that the way the game handles them puts an obstacle on this. As far as I know, in Shogun, the spears functioned like halbs in that they actively killed cavalry. Unlike in MTW, where they stand around in a block hoping that something runs into their pointy sticks...

Maybe removing the whole spear line and replacing them with faction specific halbs would work?

[caravel]

Sadly, I didn't get to play Shogun that much back in the day. I'm thinking of installing the SW mod someday though.

The SW mod is easily my favourite mod for MTW. I'd highly recommend it.

However, paradoxically, I do like the variety present in MTW in contrast to Shogun. Having exactly the same units available to all factions is a bit hardcore for my taste. I prefer to have a sort of "handicap" approach to the game design whereupon the factions have different strengths and weaknesses without having access to several different versions of units.

Of course in MTW having the same units available to all factions clearly wouldn't work. Though factions could be balanced better than they are to ensure that the game has a balanced RPS system in place. The strengths and weaknesses should be exactly that, they should not be as in RTW where some factions are ridiculous overpowered and others serve as "targets" for these factions.

The problem with this approach is that the AI is not programmed for different strategies. If a specific faction has, for example, a unit roster heavy on missiles and cavalry the AI can't adapt to this limitation.
I enjoy having to make do with what I got, but still that is easily exploitable...

Precisely. The problem with unbalanced factions is that those factions with the strongest sword infantry and heavy cavalry do best in AI vs AI autocalced battles. MTW also suffers from regional imbalance and easily exploitable trade, but that's another issue. It is the main cause of the predictable nature of the campaign however.

One solution for this that is in the MedMod is placing restrictions on the trainable units per era, and I'm guessing that this is either in the Pocket Mod or was considered a long time ago. It's the best way I can think of to have a line of three spears/swords/cav with only one per era. Although with the spear line of units, I imagine that the way the game handles them puts an obstacle on this. As far as I know, in Shogun, the spears functioned like halbs in that they actively killed cavalry. Unlike in MTW, where they stand around in a block hoping that something runs into their pointy sticks...

Maybe removing the whole spear line and replacing them with faction specific halbs would work?

Yes the era restrictions are a core part of this mod.

As to the spears, yes you're absolutely right in that turning spears into what are effectively lower quality halberdiers is the best solution. Changing some attributes can get spears to behave something more like Yari Samurai in STW. There is also the issue of the hardcoded bonus that swords get vs spears, but this can be compensated for.