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Thread: Principate Total War

  1. #1

    Default Principate Total War

    Principate Total War


    AD 10- AD 192
    Europe/North Africa/Middle East

    The Roman Principate has existed for nearly 40 years, carefully centralizing power whist retaining a republican facade. The 73 year old Princeps Augustus, adopted son of Gaius Julius Caesar is nearing the end of his life. Roman territory encompassed Italy, Gaul, Africa, Egypt, Greece, Iberia and Asia Minor. But the invinciblity has been shattered. Just one year ago, three legions under Varus were slaughtered at Teutoburg Forest by the German Arminius. The conquest of Germania has been brought rapidly to a halt and now other states bordering on Roman lands think of war.
    To the East, Pontus and Armenia are poised to attack Asia Minor, and retake their old homelands. The Parthian Empire has been subdued temporarily by a peace treaty, but they are as changeable as the wind and will strike at any time.
    North of Gaul, across the sea lays Brittania. Not much is known about this land, except that it is rich with metals and inhabited by vicious barbarians.
    Take control of Rome and expand your already huge borders or play as the British and break out of your island home. Play as the German Tribes and continue to decimate the legions who dare to invade your land. Play as Parthia and conquer the Judeans who ally themselves with Rome before taking the Roman lands themselves.

    Faction List.
    Julii- Roman Principate
    Brutii-?
    Scipii- ?
    Britons- British Tribes
    Germania- Germanic Tribes (Frisians, Cherusci, Teutons, Chatti)
    Gaul- ?
    Spain-?
    Numidia- the Kingdom of Nabatea
    Dacia- the Kingdom of Dacia
    Seleucids- the Kingdom of Osroene
    Egypt- the Tetrarchy of Judea
    Carthage-the Kingdom of Mauretiania
    Scythia-?
    Thrace- the Kingdom of Thracia
    Parthia- the Parthian Empire
    Armenia- the Kingdom of Armenia
    Pontus- the Kingdom of Pontus
    Macedon the Bosporan Kingdom
    Slaves- Independent States
    Greeks-?
    Senate-?


    Ideas-

    The Roman Principate Family tree will be split in two.

    One half is the Imperial Family, descended from Augustus

    The other half are the politicians, dividided into various sub-families

    Faction Leader (deceased) is Julius Caesar, succeeded by his adoptive son, and also by the politicians.
    In my opinion this would be be the best way to simulate the reality of the period.



    Questions-

    Would it be possible to recruit generals with native features?

    For example, the Romans recruit a general in Judea, with the name Herod and Judean traits. I think the traits part could be done through ethnic traits


    Help Needed-

    To forward the mod and accellerated the speed that it is finished, I will need help. If anyone can volunteer to create a new map or model units that would be amazing. I also need help with research, especially for the non-Roman factions.

    Thanks for reading this!


    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  2. #2

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    I like the idea. I think it would be one way to do a second Rome TW game. The real question is how do you make it challenging for the Roman player? They start out as the biggest kid on the block, and would probably be able to easily steam-roll little countries like Mauretiania and Nabataea, as they did in real life.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Good question. What I need to do is to make incentives to not bulldoze these nations. One idea is for the Tetrarchy of Judea to provide regular tribute which makes you want to stay allied to it. For the African nations i debated making the legions much less effective in desert terrain, but historically they could fight nearly anywhere, so I think the makeup the the troops will help with that. If anyone has any ideas as to how i can make the Romans harder to play as, just give me a shout and il take them into account. :)


    Principate Total War

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    All I can think is to make use of a Culture system like XGM does, using the 3 religions from BI. You could have a Roman, a Barbarian, and an Eastern culture. That would slow down Roman expansion by adding to public disorder in the provinces they capture. You also might make their units cost a lot more to recruit and maintain.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Thats a good idea. Also i have an idea to implement a similar feature, with Roman Citizenship (as a building). All cities in Italy would have this at the start and they will be the only ones able to recruit a legionary cohort (as legionaries had to be citizens of Rome). I might make citizenship createable in provinces but at a high price.


    Principate Total War

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  6. #6

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    XGM, EB, and other mods do something similar with Colony buildings. Building the colony building at each tier increases culture conversion rates, and allows you to recruit your better units.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

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  7. #7
    Rampant psychopath Member Olaf Blackeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Principate Total War

    U guys do realise that u can have NINE of these religious slots in RTW:BI right?

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Blackeyes View Post
    U guys do realise that u can have NINE of these religious slots in RTW:BI right?
    Thats quite a lot. The ones i need really are Roman, Germanic, Celtic, Eastern and african.


    Principate Total War

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf
    U guys do realise that u can have NINE of these religious slots in RTW:BI right?
    Really? I had no idea.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

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  10. #10
    Rampant psychopath Member Olaf Blackeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Yeah. Ive heard it posted around these forums cant remember where though.

    My own personal SLAVE BAND (insert super evil laugh here)
    My balloons:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayve View Post
    You're fighting against the AI... how do you NOT win?

  11. #11
    Finder of Little Oddities Senior Member Makanyane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Principate Total War

    You can definitely have more than three religions,
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54858
    but bear in mind only the first three cause dissent, and the ai isn't very good at handling them, eg. if last owner of a settlement built a building that gives wrong religion, they'll never blow it up
    Not used mods before? Looking for something small and fun?!
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Thanks for the heads up guys. A minor note - the Castra Praetoria will be simulated by a fort outside Rome. Nothing huge or special, but just a little idea. The reason its a fort is because 1- it holds the Praetorian Guard and 2- It had solid walls which could probably serve as a fortress.

    A quick question - would it be possible to utilize the loyalty system and tie it to one man (faction leader)? This could work well if 2 leaders were different ie- Nero Drusus is loyal to Augustus because he is is stepson. But he is disloyal to the next FL Tiberius because Tiberius was picked as heir instead of Drusus' own son Germanicus.

    Mabey it would need to be linked with traits...


    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  13. #13

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Just a small update guys, the family trees for the House of Herod (Judeans) and the Mauretanians





    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  14. #14

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    You really are going to a lot of work on the historical side. Impressive.

    I am guessing that Cleopatra was a popular name back then, rather than all those Cleo's being the famous one.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

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  15. #15

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    [QUOTE=SubRosa;2137658
    I am guessing that Cleopatra was a popular name back then, rather than all those Cleo's being the famous one. [/QUOTE]


    Cleopatra Selene (wife of Juba) was actually the daughter of Cleopatra and Mark Antony. In fact in the game, the Mauretanians and the Roman Imperial family are sort of related (role play resons really) as Cleopatra Selene's sister Antonia is married to Nero Drusus and she is the mother of Germanicus and the future Emperor Claudius. Im still mainly researching the armies and royal history of the factions, but finding actual 'units' is harder than I thought because most battle accounts just refer to them as '30,000 infantry' or '7000 cavalry'.


    Principate Total War

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Small Update regarding units.

    Roman Principate-

    Strong Legionaries and elite Evocati, but little variety in factional troops.
    Auxiliaries available in many provinces including Barbarian cavalry and archers.

    British Tribes-

    Light, Fast, High morale troops in large numbers have no armour. Skirmish troops armed with slings and javelins.
    Chariot generals and spear warband among heavier troops.

    Parthians-

    Heavy Cataphracts, two varieties, one armed with a lance and the other with a heavy mace.
    Speedy horse archers, including a camel mounted version - slower but cheaper and more effective in desert areas.
    Little infantry.


    Dacians

    Small amount of mounted troops. Mounted javelin troops. Rhoxolani Cavalry.
    Dacian archers. Bastenae Falxmen.
    Captured Civilized Ballistae and Catapults.


    Just a small insight into some of the troops in the game


    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  17. #17

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    The Judean Tetrarchy



    comments on this and the troop ideas above please


    Principate Total War

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  18. #18

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Will the Judeans start out as a client kingdom of Rome?
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

    ATW Version 2.5 is now out!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    Will the Judeans start out as a client kingdom of Rome?
    Yes, either as an ally or protectorate


    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  20. #20

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    ROMAN TROOP ROSTER

    Level 1 -
    Vigiles (Watchmen of the City)
    Gallic Tribesmen (Barbarian Auxiliaries) - AOR GAUL
    Roman Auxiliaries (Light Spearmen)
    Scythian Archers (Barbarian Steppe Auxiliaries) - AOR SCYTHIA


    Level 2 -
    Equites Maurorum (Mauretanian Cavalry Auxiliaries) - AOR MAURETANIA
    Equites Hispanorum (Iberian Cavalry Auxilaries) - AOR IBERIA
    Equites Thracium (Thracian Cavalry Auxiliaries) - AOR THRACE
    Eastern Archers (Archers from the Eastern Provinces) - AOR SYRIA and JUDEA

    Level 3 -
    Equites Singulares (Hand Picked Generals Bodyguard)
    Equites Gallorum (Allied Gallic Medium Cavalry) - AOR GAUL
    Equites Germanorum (Allied German Medium Cavalry) AOR GERMANIA
    Legionary Cohort (Roman Legionary Cohort) - AOR ITALY/PROVINCES GRANTED CITIZENSHIP
    Ballistae (Arrow Firing Artillery)
    Scorpions (Bolt Firing Artillery)

    Level 4 -
    Evocati (Re-enlisted Legionarh Cohort) - AOR PROVINCES/ ROME
    Praetorian Cohort (Imperial Guardsmen) - AOR ROME
    Equites Praetoriani (Mounted Imperial Guardsmen) AOR ROME
    Onagers (Stone Throwing Seige Equiptment)
    Polybolos (Automatic Bolt Firing Artillery)
    Carroballistea (Carriage Mounted Arrow Firing Artillery)

    Level 5 -
    Evocati Augusti (Re-enlisted Imperial Guardsmen)
    Equites Evocati Augusti (Re-enlisted Imperial Guard Horsemen)


    Principate Total War

    < from Emperor of Graal for PTW

  21. #21

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    DACIAN ROSTER (Not very historically accurate - wip)

    Level 1-
    Dacian Javelin Skirmishers
    Dacian Spear Militia

    Level 2 -
    Mounted Javelin Skirmishers
    Dacian Archers
    Falxmen

    Level 3 -
    Basternae Falxmen (Elite Falxmen)
    Sarmatian Elite Horsemen

    Level 4 -
    ?

    Level 5 -
    ?



    Comments on this and the roman roster please?


    Principate Total War

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  22. #22
    Askthepizzaguy Fan! Member Emperor of Graal's Avatar
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    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Your really going in there for Historical gameplay
    Keep it up!
    Your map is going great.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Italia and Mauretania -






    Ive had an idea for a simple Roman government system.

    Level 1 is a province - a basic type that provides a small happiness and trade bonus.
    It is then upgraded to 1 of 2 level 2 buildings

    Level 2

    Imperial Province - Larger Happiness Bonus and Troop Morale Bonus

    Senatorial Bonus - Taxation Bonus and Law Bonus

    Also, there is an option to give a province 'Roman Citizenship'. This is expensive and can only be done at the highest tier, but provides taxation and happiness bonuses, as well as the ability to train Legionarys there.

    Would this be possible?

    The two available types are an Imperial Province and a Senatorial Province (some provinces IE Italy have none).

    Imperial Provinces are suited to border regions, important for stratregy. Imperial Provinces get a


    Principate Total War

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  24. #24

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    I like your idea of the provinces. I am not sure how you would implement the code for that, but if it works it would be ideal.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

    ATW Version 2.5 is now out!

  25. #25

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    I might implement scripts, but only if I learn scripting or get a scripter on board.
    I like the idea of having client rulers. Especially if they can have foreign names (ie an Egyptian client King would be Ptolemy, if you decided to set up a client kingdom there).

    Im getting some really annoying CTD's however when playing as the Julii, reading the FAQ's its to do with rebel factions. Do you have to delete an unused rebel tribe/kingdom (ie Etruscans)?
    Last edited by luke_liddle; 03-04-2009 at 20:59.


    Principate Total War

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  26. #26

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Can you be more specific? If you have removed a territory, then yes I would remove the rebels that belonged to it in descr_rebel_factions.txt. Assuming those rebels were not represented in another, still existing territory.
    Last edited by SubRosa; 03-05-2009 at 00:40.
    There are never enough hours in the days of a Queen, and her nights have too many...

    ATW Version 2.5 is now out!

  27. #27

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    Can you be more specific? If you have removed a territory, then yes I would remove the rebels that belonged to it in descr_rebel_factions.txt. Assuming those rebels were not represented in another, still existing territory.
    The CTD is strange, in that it only affects the Julii. Before it happened, I had successfully completed editing Gaul, basically by condensing Armorica, Central Gaul and Lugdensis into 1 large province. This worked fine. When I merged Venetia, Liguria and Cisalpine Gaul together though, I got CTD's. I experiemented a little, any removed it from Julii control. Still the game CTD'ed at the end of the loading bar. I gave Cisalpine Gaul to the Germans. It loaded for the Germans but still failed on the Julii. To see if Italia/Umbria were causing the problems, I removed them, and all other provinces bar Gallia Narboensis and gave Italia to the Scipii. The same problems ensued, in that the Scipii loaded without a hitch and the Julii failed.
    Il mess around deleting rebels but if all else fails, Il load a backup which means I will have to re-do parts of Gaul, but the work only took several hours in the first place.

    On a lighter note, im thinking of adding some 'sightseeing' traits to [Roman] Factions. Ie, if a governor spends a turn or two in Achaea, he gains a 'Visited Athens' trait, which adds a management point (due to Athens being a famously well run city). He can gain command points by being inspired by the Ancient Egyptian Pyramids. Just a little idea to add a little extra flavour to the mod.


    Also, does anyone have any idea/requests/recomendations for Barbarian (specifically British and German) tribes, ie Brigantes, Icenii, and Frisians. Or would you prefer, a united hegemony of tribes like in vanilla.
    Last edited by luke_liddle; 03-05-2009 at 19:20.


    Principate Total War

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  28. #28

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Ok, so ive figured out whats wrong. For some strange reason, whenever I edit or delete 'Liguria', I get CTD's so for now, I've changed the name that appears and moved Liguria to Britannia to create a new Iceni province. Il get some screenshots up soon.


    Principate Total War

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  29. #29

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Gaul -



    Britain -



    Principate Total War

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  30. #30

    Default Re: Principate Total War

    Here is the Revised Faction List - Still open to suggestion though - Not complete

    * Cherusci if if people do not want an allied German Faction.

    S.P.Q.R (Julii)
    Belgae/Trinovantes/Iceni (Brutii)
    Belgae/Trinovantes/Iceni (Scipii)
    Brigantes (Britain)
    Kingdom of the Cimmerian Bosporus (Senate)
    Confederation of German Tribes/Cherusci * (Germania)
    ???Marcomanii (Gaul)
    ??? Germanic Tribe? (Spain)
    Kingdom of Parthia (Parthia)
    [Roman Client] Kingdom of Mauretania (Numidia)
    Kingdom of Armenia (Armenia)
    [Roman Client] Kingdom of Pontus (Pontus)
    Sarmatians (Scythia)
    Kingdom of Dacia (Dacia)
    [Roman Client] Tetrarchy of Judea (Egypt)
    Kingdom of Thrace (Thrace)
    Independent States (Slaves)
    ??? Northern European Tribe ie Cimbri, Frisians (Greek Cities)
    Kingdom of Nabatea (Carthage)
    (Seleucids)
    (Macedon)


    Thoughts?


    Does anyone have any information on the armies of the Bosporan Kingdom and the Germanic Tribes (specifics) at this time? Any help would be much appreciated.


    Principate Total War

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