Guidance with a Danish GA campaign

[gaijinalways]

Hi guys,

I'm looking for some ideas what to do with the direction of my current GA campaign. Currently as the Danes, I hold Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Novgorodia (sorry, for the incorrect spelling on the last one). I conducted a scorched earth raid with mercs earlier through Saxony, Friesland and French and English held territories. I later started building my trade up with the money I made and am still pumping longboats out of Denmark (and now Sweden) as well as vikings and archers and the sometime woodsman as well as Novgorodia for vikings and woodsmen. I haven't started to build troops in Finland and Norway yet as I took both of them recently.

My trade is starting to bloom, with my longboats extending just past the Strait of Gilbralter toward the Italian provinces. I have perhaps 9k in the bank with about 1700 gold profit coming in per turn in 1205 (not sure about the next few turns as I have a lof of buildings going up), but I am still putting out more boats, but have to put out some troops as the Byz and the Egyptians look poised to sack the Novgorod held territories in Crimera.

I am considering taking Livonia (as well as being able to maybe ransom the king) from the Novgorods for the trade benefits, but am concerned initially about the possible rebellions that may surface there.

I could take Saxony (HRE), Friesland (French), and Flanders (French) as I want again the trade possibilities (the first two more to connect Flanders to my small empire). Another idea is to go in the backdoor, and take Scotland and Wales from the rebels with Mercia, Wessex, Northumbria from the English and Flanders (more territories, not sure about the rebellion possibilities in Wales or Scotland).

Any ideas as to which is the best approach to acquiring new territiories (bribing, atacking) and which ones you think are better to take and hold? And when should I start replacing the longboats (saving money at the moment, only the Alomonds have a small navy that I know of)?

Thanx in advance,

GA

[gollum]

A few screenies might help

!it burnsus!

[Brandy Blue]

A little more info would be nice too.

Early/High/Late?

Vanilla/Vanilla plus VI/Mod?

My Danish experience is quite limited. I would make two comments.

1: Vikings are great, but they are poorly suited to chasing mounted archers types. Get cavalry and/or archers if you mean to go east.

2: If you plan to fight the Almohads (sometimes Almovarids in the XL mod), bear in mind that their AUM unit can clobber your Vikings, and the Almohads can make them in swarms. You will need a tactic to deal with that, such as build better infantry, use cavalry to hit the AUM in the rear, etc.

[gaijinalways]

To be honest, I'm not sure how to do screenshots, but I'm not sure how that would help you. As I said, I only have a small part of the map. I'm just looking for some general comments from people, preferably who have played the Danes before.

Brandy blue posted

1: Vikings are great, but they are poorly suited to chasing mounted archers types. Get cavalry and/or archers if you mean to go east.

And yes, I will develop diverse cavalry units as I get in, though so far the offspring royal knights I have been getting have proved adequate.

[drone]

To be honest, I'm not sure how to do screenshots, but I'm not sure how that would help you. As I said, I only have a small part of the map. I'm just looking for some general comments from people, preferably who have played the Danes before.

F2 will take a screenshot and put it in the MedievalTW\TGAs folder (in TGA format, of course). Use Photoshop or GIMP to convert these to jpg format.

I've played the Danes a lot, but I don't play GA so I'm not really sure what to tell you. They have only 1 homeland (Denmark, 5 points) and they only have the Kalmar Union achievement to strive for. To meet that, target provinces with lots of trade goods and just get your trade as high as possible. I suppose you could sabotage your competition in their achievements.

In conquest mode with the Danes, my usual strategy is to take Scotland and work my way down to Flanders, this keeps the borders small. If you go east towards the Novgorod, you will have to deal with the Horde in 25 years (your OP said 1205). Since you are already in High, start cranking out some Chivalric Sergeants, and you will need real knights at some point. The bodyguard units get the work done in Early, but you will now face problems reinforcing the existing units as early bodyguards can't be retrained anymore. You will also need the extra numbers you get with real knights.

[Knight of the Rose]

1700 income surplus shouts for an investment. If you have badly developed provices, 1205 is an excellent time to build up to next level units: chivalric this-and-that and arbalasters (very important). If you already have that (number of provinces hints you're a turtler) I would personally make sure that every one of my provinces was building troops every turn until the income is rougly 0, or -500 if you have a good balance in the bank. I would also stop building longboats - if you've made it 'round spain, then you have enough for the moment.

You're GA, and that means that I would be looking for AI score leader and figure out how to get to him. I could be byzzies, but usually it is someone else. Then I would expand drastically: you get points fast for conquests. Direction situational dependend. I like to go south, but it does open your borders. Livonia can make a massive trading income, but will take time to develop.

And for vikings - well if you can field abs and chiv.spears. and use vikings as flankers then you will win most battles.



/KotR

[gaijinalways]

Had a chance today with the wife heading out to work earlier than me. Went through a few years to about 1220.

I think the reason the trade came slower is it took a while for the boats to be put in place, as well as the trading buildings themselves. I now have Wales (bribed it for the long bows and an easy backdoor into the English provinces) Flanders, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Novgord, Livonia, and Lithuania. I took Flanders last and am continuing with a merc romp through the now ex-communicated French provinces to raise money and cause havoc. Plan to take Friesland from the French and may eventually annoy the HRE again and take Saxony from them to form a better land connection (with eventual Merica, Northumbria, and Wessex, don't want to lose too many trading partners at the same time).

I also did an earlier merc romp through the BYZ held territories, 'freeing' Lithuania from them in the process. The Byz only hold three provinces now and are a small buffer between me and the Egyptians to the east and the Polish to the west. In the meantime the Egyptians wiped out the last remnant of the Novgorods. They earlier refused to pay ransom to me for their prince and king, so the dynasty died pretty quickly after that.

The Alomonds did finally decide to attack my navy in our shared waters (thus killing a good portion of my trade for a few turns), though I imagine with the Italians and the Spanish keeping them busy in the Iberian pennisula, they shouldn't have much money or time to keep pumping out ships to match me. Once I sink a few more of their ships I should have my trade to the Italians reinstated. I can now build ships in Denmark (though I have been using this to churn out some upgraded troops with armor), Sweden, and now Novgorod. I noticed only the Italians have a larger navy, so once I sink all or most of the Alomond fleet, I should be okay until the Italians get jealous.

I have to watch my budget until the trade is fully restored as I am building a few things at the same time, but primarily focusing on things that boost income. I have been slowly building up my trading houses, with Sweden working on the Merchant's Guild building, and Norway ready to build the Merchant building. Livonia and Lithuania don't have too much (battles play havoc with buildings), perhaps only trading posts. Novgorod has a good trade income, may be at least a Merchant there. I also just finished the mine complex in Wales.

drone posted

Since you are already in High, start cranking out some Chivalric Sergeants, and you will need real knights at some point. The bodyguard units get the work done in Early, but you will now face problems reinforcing the existing units as early bodyguards can't be retrained anymore. You will also need the extra numbers you get with real knights.

Yes, the better troop types are coming. Have some xbows coming from Denmark, as well as feudal sergeants in Lithuania (want to upgrade their armor as soon as I can, another building is not finished yet). As to build cavalry, mercs are handy for that. As it is I felt bad that I didn't hang on to one merc arb and longbowmen, but I'm cheap when it comes to paying for upkeep! Will work on upgrading some other buildings for troops.

drone posted

F2 will take a screenshot and put it in the MedievalTW\TGAs folder (in TGA format, of course). Use Photoshop or GIMP to convert these to jpg format.

Are you familiar with the expression, " Sounds like Greek to me!"? Let's see, I don't have Photoshop, and 'Gimp'? But also since I'm operating under a Japanese OS, I think I'll pass on the screenshots at the moment. Sorry, I'll do my best to paint you a picture with words.

Any other suggestions? Should I start putting bigger boats in the water than longboats?

I seem to be following the concept in the Danes guide of grabbing good trading provinces (while disrupting some neighbors to try and keep some balance in the game), just a matter of watching my backside if my neighbors try to take me down a peg or two.

[HopAlongBunny]

Sounds like things are going well :)

I agree with drone; annexing Britain helps a lot. Once the Isles are secure you have the backdoor to Flanders closed; extra provinces to specialize in boat/priest/spy spam; additional trade from Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria; you will end up with a fight on your hands in the East so the British Isles provide you with the resources to expand in the West.

In GA you have 2 choices; pay attention to GA scores and look for ways to handicap/remove the competition; go full out and take the conquest victory if the points can't be achieved. Taking the Isles aids both means to victory

Enjoy :D

Madmen with axes are fun!

[gaijinalways]

hopalongbunny posted

I agree with drone; annexing Britain helps a lot. Once the Isles are secure you have the backdoor to Flanders closed; extra provinces to specialize in boat/priest/spy spam; additional trade from Mercia, Wessex and Northumbria; you will end up with a fight on your hands in the East so the British Isles provide you with the resources to expand in the West.

The extra boats will be useful, and certainly protecting Flanders is important. I forget now, when will I be able to make long bowmen (if at all, or is that only an English preogative)?


hopalongbunny posted

In GA you have 2 choices; pay attention to GA scores and look for ways to handicap/remove the competition; go full out and take the conquest victory if the points can't be achieved. Taking the Isles aids both means to victory

Definately true. I found I played MTW in GA mode the last few times before my year long break from the game as I enjoyed turtling sometimes and not being concerned about conquering most of the map.


One note, this is my first time playing the Danes more seriously, so it's a trial and error effort. Much of the Danes guide I read after I had started already, though some of the tips match what I've been doing. Trade is crucial for the Danes and if I wish to stay small for a while (less provinces to build up and defend). I feel I'll be buffered from the Mongolian horde when they appear as I don't plan to expand out toward where they'll be appearing, so the horde should help weaken the Egyptians.

As to the use of the Vikings, I'm enjoying relying on using such a simple unit (from a productivity point of view), but realize for future expansion plans (and raids/invasions) I will need more versatile units at some point, so teching up is inevitable. That and the merc option is often available, as long as you factor in the higher maintenance upkeep.

Thanx for the tips so far,

GA

[drone]

The extra boats will be useful, and certainly protecting Flanders is important. I forget now, when will I be able to make long bowmen (if at all, or is that only an English preogative)?

No, unfortunately Longbowmen are only available to the English. You will have to make do with a mix of Archers and Arbalesters for your missile needs.

As to the use of the Vikings, I'm enjoying relying on using such a simple unit (from a productivity point of view), but realize for future expansion plans (and raids/invasions) I will need more versatile units at some point, so teching up is inevitable. That and the merc option is often available, as long as you factor in the higher maintenance upkeep.

In Early, Vikings work as all-around troops, they can be front-liners and flankers. Once High comes around, I start moving them solely to the flanks, with Chivalric Sergeants in the center. I find that I rarely use FMAAs or CMAAs, I just use Vikings in that role.

When planning your expansion, look into region-specific troops that might help fill some gaps. If you go the British Isles route, Gallowglasses will be a nice addition. If you go through the Germans, look towards Switzerland for Swiss Halberdiers. If you have a particular playing style that the Danes lack troops for, go shopping!

[gaijinalways]

drone posted

No, unfortunately Longbowmen are only available to the English. You will have to make do with a mix of Archers and Arbalesters for your missile needs.

Thanx for the reminder, I was afraid of that. Guess I got too comfortable playing the English in the past. Wonder if I should go back to an earlier save and dump taking over Wales (and keep an earlier (merc longbowmen unit I had). Ah, maybe I should keep it, keeps the English honest, though with me being on Flanders, I doubt they will be happy with me around any time soon.

drone posted

When planning your expansion, look into region-specific troops that might help fill some gaps. If you go the British Isles route, Gallowglasses will be a nice addition. If you go through the Germans, look towards Switzerland for Swiss Halberdiers. If you have a particular playing style that the Danes lack troops for, go shopping!

Thanks, and I was attempting to do that, just in a misguided way with my grab of Wales (though I did get 3 longbow units). As to taking Switzerland, it's a thought. I haven't considered carefully about which units I'm lacking as yet. I ill give it some thought. Sometimes certain units are less desirable because of the infrastructure necessary to manufacture them.

I am also considering taking Lorraine and Champagne as they are currently held by the rebels. The Germans retook Friesland while the French were distracted, but that can wait

[Jxrc]

I played quite a lot with the Danes but given that I don't know who owns the provinces that are adjacent to yours I'll have to make a few assumptions ...

- regarding your Russian holdings, things would be quite nice IMHO (you hold Livonia for the GA points and need garrisons only in Novgorod and Lithuania) if the GH was not about to show up in 1230. You do not seem to have the right troops to counter them in the open and you really need more arbs (vanilla archers are pretty useless against the GA) and more spears to protect them. The commonly recognised best choke point to stop the GH is Kiev since all attacks from Khazar will be bridge battles. If you can grab Kiev without getting into too much trouble with a powerful faction just go ahead but bear in mind that you will not be able to hold Kiev with just Vikings and archers. If you cannot produce any significant number of arbs and spears before 1230, I would suggest that you should forget about Kiev and use the many forest in Lithuania to your advantage. Vikings in woods can deal with both the Mongol warriors, MHA and MHC but it will requires patience and lost of micromanaging. When the GH will show up, the bulk of its troops will take Kiev within a few years (the other AI faction will in most cases retreat) and attack Lithuania after a turn or two. When it does keep your Vikings tidy in the woods and butcher any one daring to enter. Do no chase routers or your units will be torn to pieces in the open. After taking substantial losses, the GH will start peppering you with arrows but will cause very little casualties. You just have to wait for the time to run out. That's a pretty boring battle but the worst part is that you'll have to do the same every turn for a while before the number of battles lost triggers a civil war among the GH. Once the GH has been dealt with you will be able to easily expand by bribing the now rebel GH units.

- regarding Denmark. I would not move into Saxony except if it is held by the rebels. You do not really need a new enemy if the GH is about to join the fray. If it is rebel-owned, help yourself since it will not require an additional garrison (you just have to move your army from Denmark that will no longer be a target for a land-invasion) but stop there cause any other acquisition will require new troops.

- regarding Wales and Flanders. I assume that since you managed to bribe Wales that the English are pretty weak and have, as usual, been badly beaten by the French. Wessex would be a nice addition if you can get it even at the cost of losing Wales since you would then be able to move troops by land from Flanders to Wessex (unless you use a Mod) and get the trade income from Wessex. If the English are so weak that they just hold Mercia and Northumbria, you should get rid of them as soon as possible if you can afford to. If you let them remain, they will attack you once they have produced enough heirs or they will be replaced by a more powerful faction that will come by sea (and an IA faction is always more likely to be silly enough to allow a faction resurrection). In any event, even if you were to lose both your two provinces, this would only be a minor set-back for you and you should be able to recover without too much problem. The same could be said about your holdings in Russia but there are more GA to be gained by remaining there and the prospects of expansion one the GH has disintegrated (it almost always does) are much nicer since most of the provinces will be rebel or, at least, non-catholic.

Hope it helps,
Good luck

[gaijinalways]

A little update, I'm in 1269 now. The HRE and the English have both been eliminated by yours truly. I now hold Northumberland, Mercia, Wales, Wessex, Flanders, Champagne, Lorraine, Freisland, Saxony, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Novgorod, Livonia, and Lithuania. I have decent trade, making around 6k a turn now. I making some new military units as well as churning out boats and bishops. I now need to turn to making spies as I haven't used any up to now (a small oversight perhaps, but I have been killing my share of assassins without them).

My trade has extended to just about all those oceans except for all across Northern Africa. I have been beefing up to 2 ships in each sea area as the French eye me warily and the Alomonds keep an uneasy peace with me. I am busy starting to pump out abs (as well as building a second province to build them in) as well as multiple trading houses and related buildings in areas where there are more goods such as in Denmark and Sweden (finished) Livonia, Lithunania, and Novgorod. Bordering areas in the east are hled by the Eygptians, the BYZ (extremely weak, but they only hold Pomeria, which I might be interested in ad a few other places as well as one island) and the Polish in central Europe.

The Polish are weak and most likely a next target, though I would like to get to Switzerland for certain available units, though the French stand in the way in Burgandy. This occured earlier when we were both grabbing HRE provinces that went rebel, and I didn't get. I suppose I could make a grab for it if it is still rebel held, but I prefer to avoid rebellion myself, and keep my provinces better linked. Since I am basically in the North, I might expand over the Byz and the Polish, assuming the Pope doesn't get anxious.

In the south west, the French and the Alomonds are squaring off, with the Italians vanquished holding one province in Eastern Europe after they reemerged. The Argonese hold all of 2 or 3 provinces as a sandwich in between the French and the Alomonds. The Alomonds hold most of the Iberian penisula, as well as Northern Africa until you get farther east where te Egyptians are. The Egyptians would probably be my biggest enemy as they hold a number of proivnce as well as having pretty good tech.

The Sicilians made good with the Italians gone, holding most of the areas near the pope until you reach the Egyptian conglomerate.

The Golden Horde are reemerging for the 4th time now, and since I'm still buffered from them by the Egyptians they are not much of a concern at the moment. I did have some spears and better earlier, but no arbs and only a few longbowmen (unless I took on mercs).

Thanx Jxrc, I appreciate your advice and heave been slowly upgrading my military and simply 'avoiding' the horde by letting someone else do the fighting since I haven't exapnded near them. As you stated, Kiev is a major flash point off and on.

I did have an epic battle with the Novgorods earlier when they were using a lot of Boyars. What agony to take those guys down. I had more than just vikings, but I did as you suggested and basically stayed in the woods until they came for me.