ETWs in game languages

[Vuk]

The problem is that if the British were given American accents in ETW, no matter how accurate it is, thousands upon thousands of fans would be outraged.

Very few people know much about linguistics, and even fewer know about language change and how the American and British accents have developed over time. To them having the British sound American would seem silly.

CA have to play to what the public percieve is 'accurate'. That means Queen's English Brits, Snooty Frenchman, etc.

It's a bit of a catch 22 situation really. To be 'accurate' in the public eye they have to be deliberately innacurate. Either way one group is going to be offended, it just happens to be linguists because there are fewer of us.

Pleae try not to get too involved in this discussion. Arguing with fellow members isn't going to make CA put better accents in game. Keep your points calm and civil please.

While I see your point Sir Beane, I do not completely agree with you. The thing is that enough people know enough about lingustics to appreciate the realism, and they have a real reason to be offended if it is incorrect. (because after all, isn't unrealistic voice acting offensive ) The people who know little about linguistics though have no reason to be offended if they believe it is wrong. And if they think that it is weird and look it up, they will see that it is correct. I think that CA should strive for realism when they can do so. I realise marketing concerns and such, but I hardly see why this would be any more difficult for them or cost them any business.

[Sir Beane]

While I see your point Sir Beane, I do not completely agree with you. The thing is that enough people know enough about lingustics to appreciate the realism, and they have a real reason to be offended if it is incorrect. (because after all, isn't unrealistic voice acting offensive ) The people who know little about linguistics though have no reason to be offended if they believe it is wrong. And if they think that it is weird and look it up, they will see that it is correct. I think that CA should strive for realism when they can do so. I realise marketing concerns and such, but I hardly see why this would be any more difficult for them or cost them any business.

Finding good voice actors capable of portraying accurate historical accents is more difficult than you might think. Even huge Hollywood movies with gigantic budgets have problems finding historical voice actors. And that means CA would have to pay more, for actors salaries, and for the cost of finding and recruiting capable actors.

I don't really find unrealistic voice acting offensive. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

I'm a language student and I can fully appreciate the range of languages and accents that would have to be present to make a game like Empire at all accurate. The fact is though that even scholars of language disagree on how people of the time spoke. The debate only gets worse the more languages you add into it.

I would love it iff the Magyars, English, Americans and every other faction and group of people sounded accurate. It won't happen though., and I do think it is a little unfair to expect CA to do so.

[Vuk]

Finding good voice actors capable of portraying accurate historical accents is more difficult than you might think. Even huge Hollywood movies with gigantic budgets have problems finding historical voice actors. And that means CA would have to pay more, for actors salaries, and for the cost of finding and recruiting capable actors.

I don't really find unrealistic voice acting offensive. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

I'm a language student and I can fully appreciate the range of languages and accents that would have to be present to make a game like Empire at all accurate. The fact is though that even scholars of language disagree on how people of the time spoke. The debate only gets worse the more languages you add into it.

I would love it iff the Magyars, English, Americans and every other faction and group of people sounded accurate. It won't happen though., and I do think it is a little unfair to expect CA to do so.

Definately, which is why I said that they should just simplify it by using SE USA voice actors. It would be no more trouble than using Brit voice actors, and while it would not be accurate, it would be a lot MORE accurate. That is all I am saying.

[Fisherking]

I think it is a good idea for the Brits to sound English! But I think it is more important that the Colonials sound American.

Both are relatively inaccurate approximations of speech of the time. One more so than the other, the dumb factor can not be ignored of course…so it is smarter and less likely to cause a furor if both have different accents in the game.

Last time I checked there were a few hundred million more English speakers in North America than in the UK.

It isn’t as smart to tick off the larger numbers with giving everyone the accent of an Oxford Don.

Surely you can see the point in that…



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I don’t think the discussion has degenerated to name calling and discussing peoples parentage…nor should it.

A good civil argument is stimulating and I hope all here are adult enough to continue in a civil fashion.

No worries Sir Beane!

[Sir Beane]

__________________________________________________________

I don’t think the discussion has degenerated to name calling and discussing peoples parentage…nor should it.

A good civil argument is stimulating and I hope all here are adult enough to continue in a civil fashion.

No worries Sir Beane!

Good good! I wasn't really worried, just a friendly warning because this topic could get quite political.

Carry on gents.

[Vuk]

Good good! I wasn't really worried, just a friendly warning because this topic could get quite political.

Carry on gents.

YOU BRIT !!


lol

[Fisherking]

CA says they are continuing development after release. Language my not be the problem I first noted in the video of Bunker hill, but if it is they can fix it.

Besides, the thing that would sound in between and might be acceptable to both sides of the pond would be to just grab some Irish voice actors to do the work.

It is much closer to the English of the day and Americans would raise less of a fit.

[Barkhorn1x]

Otherwise I wouldn't be able to watch any American movie or show with a British character, because they always have us Brits sounding like upper class twits. And to be honest no one I know sounds anything like that.

Are you sure about that? Every time I see a talk show or documentary on the Beeb they all pretty much sound like that.

Odd.

[Sir Beane]

Are you sure about that? Every time I see a talk show or documentary on the Beeb they all pretty much sound like that.

Odd.

It's no suprise the BBC sounds like that, they make an effort to get people who speak RP English (like The Queen). Talk shows tend to have more regional accents now however.

I live in Derbyshire, which is a rather rural part of England and has one of the oldest (and oddest) accents. Speaking Queen's English will get you funny looks around these parts. I know that from personal experience (apparently I sound 'a bit posh' ).

England's a small country, but we have plenty of variation in accents.

[Oleander Ardens]

First I think it is a great thing that CA wants to let troops bark in their own language. While dialects would be nice I think it is fair to imagine that the officers tried to speak the standard language.

[Sisco Americanus]

It's no suprise the BBC sounds like that, they make an effort to get people who speak RP English (like The Queen). Talk shows tend to have more regional accents now however.

I live in Derbyshire, which is a rather rural part of England and has one of the oldest (and oddest) accents. Speaking Queen's English will get you funny looks around these parts. I know that from personal experience (apparently I sound 'a bit posh' ).

England's a small country, but we have plenty of variation in accents.

I didn't really even take notice of this sort of thing until I was watching Doctor Who (Stop judging me!!) and everyone asked Christopher Eccleston why he had a northern accent (to which his response was always, "A lot of places have a north."). British generally sounded British to me, with the only distinction being "high class" British as opposed to "low-class" British, all of which I subsumed under the term "cockney." After that I really began to pay attention and noticed the distinct differences in the regional dialects of England. Fascinating subject, really.

If the English of the 18th century sounded closer to modern Americans than to modern English, which modern Americans do linguists think they sounded like? There are a lot of different accents in North America, of course. Canadians sound different from New Englanders, Minnesotans sound different from people from the Mid-Atlantic, etc. Do linguists think they would have sounded closest to the mid-atlantic/Virginia tidewater accent, as someone suggested (it does sound very genteel, by the way)?

EDIT: I've followed the link on the previous page and am seeing that my question has already been discussed.

[Fisherking]

I didn't really even take notice of this sort of thing until I was watching Doctor Who (Stop judging me!!) and everyone asked Christopher Eccleston why he had a northern accent (to which his response was always, "A lot of places have a north."). British generally sounded British to me, with the only distinction being "high class" British as opposed to "low-class" British, all of which I subsumed under the term "cockney." After that I really began to pay attention and noticed the distinct differences in the regional dialects of England. Fascinating subject, really.

If the English of the 18th century sounded closer to modern Americans than to modern English, which modern Americans do linguists think they sounded like? There are a lot of different accents in North America, of course. Canadians sound different from New Englanders, Minnesotans sound different from people from the Mid-Atlantic, etc. Do linguists think they would have sounded closest to the mid-atlantic/Virginia tidewater accent, as someone suggested (it does sound very genteel, by the way)?

Good questions all!

Again most of those questions are answered here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=112364

But definitely NOT Virginia Tidewater.

Of the time “merchant” would sound like marchent for one. The Rs were hard and pronounced. The accent would have sounded closer to Irish in that regard.

As for sounds closest try back woods Tennessee and the hills of Arkansas. Tidewater’s hidden Rs and soft soft vowels are owed most to African-American influences.

[Megas Methuselah]

And what about the Native American factions? If the Sioux and the Iroquois are speaking the same language…well some of us will know!

The'll probably only have the "playable" factions speak in their native tongues, while the rest will say nothing.

Canadians sound different from New Englanders-

I think it's very funny that you should classify people of countless nationalities spread across a whole friggen continent in one of the world's largest countries under a single accent. Do you realize how many different "Canadian" accents there are?

[scipiosgoblin]

I live in Derbyshire, which is a rather rural part of England and has one of the oldest (and oddest) accents. Speaking Queen's English will get you funny looks around these parts. I know that from personal experience (apparently I sound 'a bit posh' ).

I just wanted to thank you Sir Beane. My wife just chewed me out because I mispronounced Derbyshire. For those of you who don't know (Like me) it's pronounced Darbishur.

Why can't you Brits speak a civilized language???? LOL

This is my ongoing battle with the South African Wife who hates it when I call her a snooty Brit.

Back on Topic
I think CA is bound to disappoint all of us in some aspect on the game. There are several hundred thousand of us and only one game. If all they muck up (wife's influence on word choice) is some accents, I can live with it.

Still can't wait for the game.

And YAY I'm a member

SG