Boy fathers child at twelve and girl at fourteen

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...cle2238252.ece

It's only really the tabloids that are covering this one. Thought I might as well post it up (I'm making a habit of backroom posting).

Thing is this sort of story is all too common across the UK. This one only happened to get to press after a family member shopped them to the Sun (who had a four page article on them yesterday). The families, both of them, although particularly the mother's, appear to be members of the ignorant "Jeremy Kyle Show" underclass that exists across Britain - in other words, council housed, unemployed and living off benefits. That translates as a useless burden on the state in my book.

The question is what should be done about it? Sex education isn't making a difference, it's existed since the sixties and teen pregnancies have been on the rise since. I don't really understand how it works, but perhaps its message opposing young sex isn't clear enough or indeed real enough. It's probably just a couple of cartoon drawings where the real side of having a kid isn't shown - maybe adding interviews with teen mums and their families on how hard it is and how damaging to their lives it has been could have a positive effect.

Of course, there is another option, start convicting parents maybe, but I don't think that would really make any difference either - modern children don't listen to their parents (not really always a bad thing though with the kind of parents we have nowadays). Punishing the children themselves would be morally wrong IMO, so that in my eyes isn't really an option.

Anyhow, thoughts?

No big deal...


...I lived in Hull for three years. If he was living there his mates at elementary school would probably scold him for taking so long...

The boy looks like he's 8 and the girl looks like an abomination of God. The kid doesn't even look like he has boys that swim.

My dad sometimes gives me 10 (insert crazy montarey sign)

He should be set then right?

This kind of thing is all to common here to. These people are generally good but all to often these things lead to abuse and broken homes because there just not ready. Then there child grows up and repeats the cycle.

They're going to have sex. Give 'em condoms.

Originally Posted by CountArach

They're going to have sex. Give 'em condoms.

Well sweetheart that doesn't seem to work.

I mean condoms work but this kind of thing will go on wether or not you hand them out.

They hand out free condoms here from time to time, I ask for the flavored ones they never bring those

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Well sweetheart that doesn't seem to work.

Then give them more. Condoms shall solve this problem...

Originally Posted by CountArach

Then give them more. Condoms shall solve this problem...

Well you only need one. Unless you think burying them in latex works. Personally I would make a jacket out of my extras.

I mean there wouldn't be any extras!....Who am I kidding there would be extras.

Looks like the lad is serious about it at least, I dunno it's kinda cute. Most obvious question, where are the parents parents?

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

The boy looks like he's 8 and the girl looks like an abomination of God. The kid doesn't even look like he has boys that swim.

What more is there to say?

CR

Me and my co-workers talked about this yesterday.
And we all agreed this was BS and a made-up story.
Evidence:
1. This story was only posted in swedish tabloids(Expressen, aftonbladet), they are known for making up stories.
2. However their source is a british tabloid The Sun, in others word a very bad source.
3. That boy is 8.

So I will consider this story to be false until posted by a respectable newspaper.

Originally Posted by TB666

Me and my co-workers talked about this yesterday.
And we all agreed this was BS and a made-up story.
Evidence:
1. This story was only posted in swedish tabloids(Expressen, aftonbladet), they are known for making up stories.
2. However their source is a british tabloid The Sun, in others word a very bad source.
3. That boy is 8.

So I will consider this story to be false until posted by a respectable newspaper.

You think respectable newspapers would write about a couple teenagers knocking eachother up in the slums of east jesus chavistan?

Originally Posted by Fragony

Most obvious question, where are the parents parents?

Scrounging of benefits the article suggests. I'm amazed they would actually let their kids go through with it.

Originally Posted by Romanus

You think respectable newspapers would write about a couple teenagers knocking eachother up in the slums of east jesus chavistan?

Afaik I saw it on cnn yesterday.

I don't think sex ed is going to do much. If anything it would create more curiosity. What would be more effective is starting to crack down on erotic media/ads that've been on the rise since the last century.

They created a new life, isn't that wonderful?

Originally Posted by CountArach

They're going to have sex. Give 'em condoms.

UK schools have been handing out free (basic, as in just plastic sheets) condoms since the late 90s. Not sure how well publicised this is to students though. On the high street condoms are rather expensive for a kid to buy (£3.95 for ten rings a bell - no innuendo intended).

And a respectable newspaper does cover it (although to be fair, it is just the Sun's story reworded and re-printed). Regardless of the "realness" of this case, however, kids still are having kids which is worrying.

Btw, news has it that two others have now claimed to be the father...

Richard, who told the paper he slept with Chantelle with the consent of her parents and without using any contraception, said he plans to demand a DNA test is carried out to find out the truth.

That section is particularly disturbing should it be true. What sort of parent allows their under-age daughter to sleep with somebody? This just highlights that many parents nowadays are at best awful role models - we can see in the article the far from exemplary behaviour of the families, particularly the mother's, overall. At worst some parents are totally incapable of looking after their children. As a result of this poor parenting, these ideas get passed on to their children, then to their children and further on in a never ending cycle of negative ideas.

The problem is what can we do? Free parenting classes could be started I suppose, but you can hardly make parents attend - in reality the ones that actually genuinely care about their children (and so don't really need these classes) will be the only ones that actually go as opposed to the hopeless parents that actually need them. Another alternative would be assessment of parents prior to the birth of the child of their actual suitability, the baby of failing parents being taken away for adoption at this stage. Judgements won't always be accurate though and could result in perfectly good parents being discriminated against. Perhaps a reform of the education system could also break this cycle. Emphasis on hard-work, a good education, strong qualifications and, of course, sex education with a painfully strong emphasis on the need for contraception and the nitty gritty realities of not using it could turn things around. Or not.

Indeed... routine castration is now the only answer among the chav hordes. When you have a culture that is geared towards reproduction as a means by which to remain on state benefits for life, it is only logical and hardly surprising when such things occur.

Originally Posted by Asai Nagamasa

Indeed... routine castration is now the only answer among the chav hordes. When you have a culture that is geared towards reproduction as a means by which to remain on state benefits for life, it is only logical and hardly surprising when such things occur.

I suppose that is the common sense solution, but the word inhuman comes to mind. It's unethical IMO.

What you bring up is other good point - the benefits system also needs reforming - in my eyes there should be no money, you get paid in coupons with which you can buy food, enough for your household to survive, and other essentials (toilet paper, soap e.c.t.) only. Clothing coupon should be given out separately each quarter. Other bills should be paid for, but only up to a certain value, this value considering the population of the home, to prevent people getting extravagant with their electrics, heating, phone and water. If they do exceed the value, they get what happens to anybody who doesn't bother to pay their bills and get cut off. They are of course welcome to use their own savings to pay any excess and buy whatever they like otherwise. Those who have actually been in employment before or in between claiming benefit should get provided with coupons/bill paying amounts which have an additional value of 0.25% per year they've been working (e.g. Bob's been working twenty years and is now on benefits - he gets 5% more than Sharon who has never worked in her whole life).

Child benefits should be similar, although they maybe should provide coupons spendable not only on the usual food and clothes, but also on toys, games and other things that a child will want to help bring them up.

Applying this to the "kid for benefit" ideology, parents' unconditional (as in no need to search for a job) benefit should end eventually forcing parents to find work/get an education (with government support) the moment free schooling becomes available for their first child (aged 4). Have another child, tough on you - the government shouldn't use having a second child as an excuse to avoid work - you had the child, you deal with the consequences. Child benefit should be provided to this infant though, even though unconditional benefit is removed.

All people on conditional benefit should have the choice between getting qualifications to improve their employability if they lack them or job hunting, them being forced into the former after two/three years of job hunting. If they come off benefit and then go back on, they should have half the time they've been off benefit to find themselves a job plus any time they had left before going into education before before being forced into education. Choosing/being forced into the education route allows benefits to continue as long as attendance at the establishment is retained, it being stopped the moment an illegitimate reason for lack of attendance is found.

As well as perhaps stopping this benefit culture, it may also stop individuals who are spending their benefits money on things such as cigarettes and alcohol which are commodities not to be enjoyed by those who are so desperate that they have to turn to the state for help.

That's probably a little too detailed, but you get the point anyhow.

Such things have happened throughout history.

However, these sorts of things were or at least seemed to be VERY much less frequent when such behavior led to public ostracism, sneering, and belittlement.

With those involved NOT becoming social pariahs, it appears to be that such things are more frequent.

Is there a lesson there?

Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Such things have happened throughout history.

However, these sorts of things were or at least seemed to be VERY much less frequent when such behavior led to public ostracism, sneering, and belittlement.

With those involved NOT becoming social pariahs, it appears to be that such things are more frequent.

Is there a lesson there?

Perhaps, but not a useful one. The Chav underclass is quite happy with itself, the rest of us sneer. I saw something on television a while back to the effect that intellectuals and the media have been telling us that we are all liberated and laid back about social mores, bad language etc., but that the truth is that we are not.

I suggest the child be taken into care now, before any damage can be done to it.

Originally Posted by CountArach

They're going to have sex. Give 'em condoms.

They are too young to hear about sex. And sexual education too.

Kukri thinks: if you get government money: you are a government employee.

As employer, the government can and should impose whatever conditions seem right. As employee, the individual should negotiate their best employment deal, then comply with the terms of that contract.

If the government has hired you to raise your children, you must raise them as the government/employer sees fit, or risk termination of employment. If you don't want the government to tell you how to raise your children, quit the job, or renegotiate a better deal.

Make abstinance or condom use a condition of employment. "Surprise" baby? Termination of employment. Underage pregnancy? Termination of employment. School drop-out? Termination of employment.

As they say down south... Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed!!! Yeeehaw!!! G-damn, I'm drunk!!!

We don't say that.

Was reported here a few nights ago that 6 other boys have come forward claiming to be the father. One 16 year old even demands a DNA test to confirm it.

Originally Posted by Caius

They are too young to hear about sex. And sexual education too.

At 12 or 13, far from it. It is exactly the right time (according to my parents and my countries educational system). Because that is when a few of them are going to start. This exact same thing happened in my junior high, 15 years ago. Even with decent sex ed at 12 or 13 teen pregnancy is going to happen. You can't stop it totally, you can just try and minimize it as much as possible.

Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites

That section is particularly disturbing should it be true. What sort of parent allows their under-age daughter to sleep with somebody? This just highlights that many parents nowadays are at best awful role models - we can see in the article the far from exemplary behaviour of the families, particularly the mother's, overall. At worst some parents are totally incapable of looking after their children. As a result of this poor parenting, these ideas get passed on to their children, then to their children and further on in a never ending cycle of negative ideas.

My mother for one.

Originally Posted by pevergreen

Was reported here a few nights ago that 6 other boys have come forward claiming to be the father. One 16 year old even demands a DNA test to confirm it.

That girl must have one hell of a personality.

Yeah this kind \V/ *nudge**nudge*

Parents cant stop it. I was forbidden from having sex but it didnt stop me. It was about 5-6 months of constant unprotected sex. Luckily nothing went wrong. If they try to stop it, the kids will find a way.