Thoughts & Commentary on the Obama Administration

**Sasaki Kojiro** · 10-01-2009, 16:16

Ahahaha, a radio talking head? Louis, their job is to say crazy **** so people will listen.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 10-01-2009, 17:03

RVG - no I am not.

Sasaki - the point is that millions of people do listen, to very many talking heads. They do not listen to Islamic internet sites that say that America is Satan. They do not listen to commie talk radio that says America is a fascist-industrial complex.

They do listen to alarmist 'America is a liberal dictatorship and Obama is gonna put you into a concentration camp'. Because this, unlike the others, is what they (somewhat) believe.

And even if they do not believe it all, even if they listen just because they like to get worked up a bit, there is a perfidious mechanism at work: if five is the reasonable middle between four and six, but people will shout without pause 'twenty!, twenty!, twenty!', then a lot of people will think the reasonable middle must be four plus twenty, so twelve instead of five. (Sheesh, learn proper terminology, Louis)

In effect, they might not believe they'll be send to a concentration camp anytime soon, but they will get out of it that reforming healthcare is tantamount to turning America into a socialist utopia. That a start-of-school-season speech is Hitlerite personality cult building. That they must protect America from the Jews and Bolshevists because Goebbels says so..erm, I mean: from the liberal-marxist dictatorship.

**rvg** · 10-01-2009, 17:15

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

They do listen to alarmist 'America is a liberal dictatorship and Obama is gonna put you into a concentration camp'. Because this, unlike the others, is what they (somewhat) believe.

Says who? What makes you believe that the average Joe hears this and takes it to heart? Average Joe hears that under Obama's new plan 14% of Joe's paycheck will be pissed away on mandatory obamacare and thusly Joe gets upset. That however does not mean that Joe thinks of Obama as a liberal dictator who will eat Joe's children. I don't understand why is anything other than unconditional worship of Obama being interpreted as right wing fascism? People complain about Obama's plan because it is a bad plan. People are disagreeing with a would-be policy, that doesn't mean that they are ready to grab their torches and pitchforks.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 10-01-2009, 17:47

Originally Posted by rvg

What makes you believe that the average Joe hears this and takes it to heart?

I do not.

*sigh*

**rvg** · 10-01-2009, 17:51

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

I do not.

*sigh*

Then what is your point? Fringe crazies have always been there and always will be. Hardly anyone listens to them, and thus they are irrelevant.

**Tribesman** · 10-01-2009, 18:24

Fringe crazies have always been there and always will be. Hardly anyone listens to them, and thus they are irrelevant.

And nowadays fringe crazies are mainstream corporate media and are getting some of the best ratings and are actually still increasing their ratings.
Its very hard to get good ratings when hardly anyone listens

**rvg** · 10-01-2009, 18:37

Originally Posted by Tribesman

And nowadays fringe crazies are mainstream corporate media and are getting some of the best ratings and are actually still increasing their ratings.
Its very hard to get good ratings when hardly anyone listens

Good entertainment is supposed to get good ratings.

**Tribesman** · 10-01-2009, 17:23

And even if they do not believe it all, even if they listen just because they like to get worked up a bit, there is a perfidious mechanism at work: if five is the reasonable middle between four and six, but people will shout without pause 'twenty!, twenty!, twenty!', then a lot of people will think the reasonable middle must be four plus twenty, so twelve instead of five. (Sheesh, learn proper terminology, Louis)

So you mean that by vocal really crazy wingnuts spouting lots of nonsense people shift further to the crazy wingnut direction, but hold up the really crazy wingnuts to say that they themselves are perfectly normal compared to the real loonies even though they are actually insane.

**Tribesman** · 10-01-2009, 17:28

Until that happens, we have you beaten by a mile

Not very good at history are you, do you have trouble thinking of an elected leader of a western european country .
Say a person of foriegn parents of a middle eastern culture .
Its amazing, he was named after a country that didn't exist until last century

**Louis VI the Fat** · 10-02-2009, 01:26

I am not quite sure what to answer to your questions, rvg.

Let's say that the rightwing has not turned America into a police state because if Hofstadter is correct and it has been crossing over all this time, then apparantly the mainstream right is resilient to being taken over completely by complete paranoia.

Why is it resilient? Because Hofstadter describes but a single aspect. US (rightist) political discourse has many aspects. Which ones make it resilient (is it? will it be?), I have some ideas but after trying to pinpoint earlier what I meant about the paranoia of the right, I am spend for the day.

I'm not on a witch hunt [size=1](me, I'm not paranoid

) against America, or the US right, or even the hardright. I am trying to understand what I see. And then suddenly I remembered that what I see has a name, and that it is not my own thoughts, but lingering memories of a famous essay. That is, I did not find a name to what I see, I saw what I did because I knew it had a name.

Hofstadter is the origin of this earlier quote of mine from last page:

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat

That they must protect America from the Jews and Bolshevists because Goebbels says so...erm, I mean: from the liberal-marxist dictatorship.

And I'm not alone in this interpretation, in seeing this connection. The connection is the paranoid style. Others have derived this connection from Hofstadter too, from my earlier link:

And then we have the one really commanding example – the country in which the “paranoid style” perhaps went the furthest and had the greatest impact. That would be Germany in the period from roughly 1880 to the end of World War II. Hofstadter’s Columbia colleague, and my friend, Fritz Stern, wrote what may be a definitive application of the Hofstadter thesis in The Politics of Cultural Despair: A Study in the Rise of the Germanic Ideology

**Lemur** · 10-02-2009, 03:26

I'm still amazed that the only people consistently making fun of Obama are The Onion. Sure, John Stewart has taken some whacks, and SNL tries (lord how they try), but the only people squeezing comedy gold out of the current admin is America's Most Trusted News Source.

Healthy, Happy Obamas Out of Touch With Miserable Americans

And my all-time favorite: Obama Disappointed Cabinet Failed To Understand His Reference To 'Savage Sword Of Conan' #24

**Aemilius Paulus** · 10-02-2009, 03:54

Originally Posted by Lemur

I'm still amazed that the only people consistently making fun of Obama are The Onion. Sure, John Stewart has taken some whacks, and SNL tries (lord how they try), but the only people squeezing comedy gold out of the current admin is America's Most Trusted News Source.

Healthy, Happy Obamas Out of Touch With Miserable Americans

And my all-time favorite: Obama Disappointed Cabinet Failed To Understand His Reference To 'Savage Sword Of Conan' #24

Heh, interesting that you note. The Economist ran an article on that this spring.

**Lord Winter** · 10-02-2009, 03:26

The comparison to late 19th century France is a good one. Look at the Dreyfus affair for example. There are those today who will point to a great conspiracy against the american way of life. It doesn't matter if they call it the syndicate or the evil secular liberal progressives(how those terms have been perverted by the right). We as a nation believe that there is a religion set up for the sole purpose of destroying our society. Both Americans and these past French men glorify the military as the embodiment of every value we hold dear and both see any insult to it as treason. We both have the same sensationalist media ready to find any conspiracy in any action. Facts? Why do you need those when our safety could be at stake? Besides even if there was a mistake how dare we insult the brave men who serve our country? While we may not be showing the same level of hatred displayed in the Dreyfus affair the same symptoms are there.