understanding a sally

**Ferromancer** · 02-24-2009, 15:35

Originally Posted by zooeyglass

so you attacked, got a draw, but ended up taking the city? strange turn of events....

at the time of the draw, am i to understand that the enemy's troops still alive were all outside the city walls, and your troops were all inside the city walls?

Yep

They stormed out to wreck my siege equipment, got distracted by some skirmishers, and I ran some guys all around the city walls. They would come to gate after gate only to find it locked, until they just gave up and sat on the hillside to watch the rest of the fight.

**spqr_arcani** · 02-25-2009, 20:05

Originally Posted by Ferromancer

Yep

They stormed out to wreck my siege equipment, got distracted by some skirmishers, and I ran some guys all around the city walls. They would come to gate after gate only to find it locked, until they just gave up and sat on the hillside to watch the rest of the fight.

I've had this interesting siege battle very similar to yours before. However I haven't had the battle timer zero out on me before the 3-minute square timer did.

Can you clarify whether this was the last siege turn?

I have a feeling that the reason you occupied the city in your scenario was not because you locked the enemy out (which actually makes sense from a warfare point of view), but because it was the last siege turn, when the AI is left with the choice of either sallying out as a last ditch effort to save the city, or surrender the city without a fight.

The second choice makes sense to me because of pure RTW game mechanics. In this case, it wouldn't have mattered whether you were inside or outside the city walls, or if you were on the square or not. You could actually have a dozen skirmishers hiding in a forest outside, and if they survive when the battle timer zeroes out, you actually can take over a city garrisoned with a full stack!

But your scenario might be different, so that's why I'm curious.

**spqr_arcani** · 02-25-2009, 20:10

Originally Posted by Ferromancer

Yep

They stormed out to wreck my siege equipment, got distracted by some skirmishers, and I ran some guys all around the city walls. They would come to gate after gate only to find it locked, until they just gave up and sat on the hillside to watch the rest of the fight.

And you mentioned another thing that I'm even more curious about.

I haven't seen a scenario where I could use troops to destroy siege equipment.
How do you do that? I've seen my wall towers destroy enemy ambulant towers when they storm the city walls, and was able to use the general to attack the troops carrying ladders to slow them down, but don't think I've ever destroyed towers, ladders, battering rams, or sap points by melee-ing them. On occasion I've had archers use flamed arrows burn down ambulent towers.

Could you elaborate on how the AI wrecked your siege equipment?

**spqr_arcani** · 02-25-2009, 20:19

Originally Posted by spqr_arcani

And you mentioned another thing that I'm even more curious about.

I haven't seen a scenario where I could use troops to destroy siege equipment.
How do you do that? I've seen my wall towers destroy enemy ambulant towers when they storm the city walls, and was able to use the general to attack the troops carrying ladders to slow them down, but don't think I've ever destroyed towers, ladders or sap points by melee-ing them. On occasion I've had archers use flamed arrows burn down ambulent towers.

Could you elaborate on how the AI wrecked your siege equipment?

And if anyone knows what I'm talking about, the opening RTW movie sequence shows this part where a siege tower collapses after it has reached the wall. Not sure if that's caused by city wall towers firing flame arrows at the siege tower, or if it was due to some melee attack.

And there were times in the original vanilla RTW where for some reason an entire array of enemy troops climbing ladders simply fell splat to the ground. Not sure if my troops defending the wall had anything to do with it. I thought that was hilarious.

If anyone knows whether these are still possible in EB or know how to do these, please share!

**Zett** · 02-25-2009, 20:41

Originally Posted by spqr_arcani

And there were times in the original vanilla RTW where for some reason an entire array of enemy troops climbing ladders simply fell splat to the ground. Not sure if my troops defending the wall had anything to do with it. I thought that was hilarious.

That happens if your troops on the wall breake the enemy unit, the remaining soldiers on the ladders fall down and die.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

**spqr_arcani** · 02-25-2009, 22:29

Originally Posted by Zett

That happens if your troops on the wall breake the enemy unit, the remaining soldiers on the ladders fall down and die.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

No wonder I haven't seen this in a while.

Back in Vanilla RTW days it was easy recruiting robust faction units such as legionnaires as soon as you conquered the enemy city. When my newly conquered city was assaulted by enemy troops, my faction units held out well and probably broke the ladder climbers as you pointed out. For some reason (maybe game balancing), I find putting melee units on the walls not quite that efficient or effective when playing EB.

Thanks!

**soup_alex** · 02-25-2009, 23:29

Originally Posted by spqr_arcani

And there were times in the original vanilla RTW where for some reason an entire array of enemy troops climbing ladders simply fell splat to the ground. Not sure if my troops defending the wall had anything to do with it. I thought that was hilarious.

The first time I laid siege to Syrakousai, one of my siege towers had been ordered ("sort-of deliberately"; in the name of science, you could say) to a section of wall that was also being targetted by sappers.

Hilarity ensued.

**heldelance** · 02-25-2009, 23:48

I remember one of my finer sallies...
The Greeks had been pushed out of Greece and they somehow had ownership of the town in the Trapezous region, their last remaining stronghold. Once I broke into the east past Galatia, Greece sent a force of ~1500 mostly light eastern infantry who were readily slaughtered by my Scythian archers, 2 turns and they were down to about 400 men.

To spqr_arcani, siege towers can be destroyed at the walls when defending archers hit them with flame arrows, mine've done that before. Other than that, siege equipment IS destructable by non-archer units, it just takes a long time to even do any damage to it. Elephants (if you've got them as reinforcements not stuck in the city) I think will do significant damage and smash the siege equipment. If anyone can test that please post the results. :D

**Gaius Scribonius Curio** · 02-26-2009, 00:38

In terms of sallies by a besieged foe, does this mean that you have to force them back inside their walls to get a draw? I ask because I'm playing without a battle time limit as the Saka, and had a general and two low-end horse archers units besieging Taxashila, basicly halved the enemy forces without loss, but then was forced to retreat because I couldn't force their remaining forces back inside the walls. I'll return in six months to finish the job, but I just wanted this clarified.

Thanks,

Curio

**Ferromancer** · 02-27-2009, 15:50

Originally Posted by Gaius Scribonius Curio

In terms of sallies by a besieged foe, does this mean that you have to force them back inside their walls to get a draw? I ask because I'm playing without a battle time limit as the Saka, and had a general and two low-end horse archers units besieging Taxashila, basicly halved the enemy forces without loss, but then was forced to retreat because I couldn't force their remaining forces back inside the walls. I'll return in six months to finish the job, but I just wanted this clarified.

Thanks,

Curio

No. See my post above. All I had to do was take the square, it came to a draw, but was able to take the city.