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Thread: Mp...Drags the heart out of men

  1. #1
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Learning the game, mp is something I give you all that. What I seriously disagree with is that when winning a good game, exhausted troops and barely making it thru, someone starts whining about cheats. I've lost more games than I won (won 4/9), but cheating!!!

    Maybe because one is new to the community, eh?
    Not gonna let that put me down, was in a 2v2 and it was a slaughterhouse, all sides broken and we won by the slightest marginal...good fun was had by all!

    Thanks all for the insights. The endless strategy dimensions are making it really interesting and alive and the phorum has been fundamental for me and my tactics.

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    SupremeWannabee

    [This message has been edited by TheSmisker (edited 05-21-2001).]
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  2. #2

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    I wouldn't let whining like that stop me from playing. Although, I might not play that person anymore. The only time the regular players take accusations like that seriously is if someone who doesn't normally complain does it.

    MizuYuuki ~~~
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    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    Don't worry about it mate.

    Ppl sometimes have frustrating nights. If you didn't cheat, try to get someone you know to talk with the person... Or, wait a day and maybe talk with them the next night.

    In all honesty, I was a bit short tempered tonight when I played a 1v1 against ____ Akechi.

    I was just about to finish routing his last two units (most of my army was still alive with big kill ratio) when the game suddenly stopped (completely to a standstill) and gave me a countdown that resulted in the game quitting to the Foyer...

    anyways, after a long private conversation that steadily grew hotter I *bullied* him into a rematch to gain the honor that I would have gained had the first match been recorded. In all honesty, I did believe him to have cheated at first since this sort of thing happens quite frequently.

    It is my policy of honor that if I am hosting and my oppenent gets the count, then I press esc so that he does not get a loss. It is also my policy to grant rematches that I humbly lose if the previous match is not properly recorded (and the opponent brings it to my attention while I still remember playing him).

    Anyways, he was not familiar with these practices.

    Basically, after much hassle, he finally agreed and granted me the act. Thus, proving that he was indeed honorable.

    Anyways, he then told me he did not want to play or talk to me again. (and meant it to the point that he asked the foyer for the "ignore" command. Which I provided to him)

    In hindsight, I did act too rashly and should have taken a nicer tone. But, how does one resolve one's personal honor vs. someone else's honor???

    anyway, just a story for you Smisker.

    -Zen Blade

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    Zen Blade Asai
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  4. #4

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    Don't expect whining about people who play the game like another life(like me ). It happens once in a while but not often. Most people say gg and discuss the battle, the loser sometimes laughing if he gets slaughtered.

    One time I was playing on 4th kawanajiwa. I was attacking and went left, to the lowest slope, and sent my honor 5 archers against his honor 3s, also while hitting his monks, cav, and ys. He was tired of waiting so charged down the slope, then I met him on even ground. I strategically placed certain units to meet his, for example I made sure my monks attacked his ys, while my ys hit his cav, and my nds hit his archers. I broke his center and won on my left flank, while barely holding my right. Then I blocked off his retreat path and was just about to make his last unit(his general) rout. Then out of no where he typed "HACKER!" and disconnected from the game. I won't say his name here, but I made sure everyone in the chat room saw it Sure I won, but it makes me mad when someone doesn't have the balls to accept a loss.

    BTW, just remember one thing. Think of the strategic battle part of the game as a game of chess. If you just blindly charge across the map, you will get slaughtered(unless the other player does that too). Figure out what units should go in the center, flanks, and reserve. Always have units for reserve after the initial charge, incase of being flanked. Just like chess, if you sacrafice a queen for a pawn, you just made a big mistake. You have limited amount of units, so use them very wisely. And don't use wedge formation too much. I see some players do this to all their units, which lets me flank them more easily. Use wedge in your center, but keep your flanks closed formation and tell the to hold formation if you are being flanked. Last but not least, have a plan before you fight. If you want to win, make up a formation on paper, then draw out every possible weak point you see. Change this formation until you have one that looks great. And if you lose a battle with it, then even better, since you can see what was wrong with it. Welcome to mp and have fun!
    - A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
    - The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.

  5. #5
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Thanks for all respone people. No, I don't get discouraged even though I find it wrong.

    If you are new to a community, and someone whom I presume to be quite known (seen him around here and there, seeming to be aquainted with most) making such remarks brings unneccesary complications to the whole process of being a recognized player. I know what I would think, reading those post.

    There is a very positive force behind the whole mp-thing, I really enjoy the opportunity to talk battles thru, I find myself learning so much in every battle. Reminds me of when I got my SCUBA-diver certificate 1993. Boy, the 10 first dives were entire courses in themselves...

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  6. #6
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Zen, the ethics you put forward, are they standard among the players? I like the concept of them, really. Even though there is so much distance in between, these rules of ethics makes it all seem tight and bound together.
    I'll adopt them myself and I ask you all out there if you could provide me with more of them.

    Ahh, the abb's,
    I've learnt (thru GroundControl mp) what gg means, last nigth I was informed that GL means goodbye loosers. Are there more standard ones? It gets confusing sometimes (me being swedish, english not 1st language and all) and I would appreciate insights here...

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  7. #7
    Member Member ShadeWraith's Avatar
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    Hi, Smisker m8, GL means good luck, you may sometimes see players typing GL and HF before games. HF means have fun. The online ethics are difficult for sure, especially when you are new.Sometimes players dont know you are new and maybe expect too much of you in 2v2 mp battles. So sorry if I appeared a little terse last night

    L8r, Wraith

    [This message has been edited by ShadeWraith (edited 05-22-2001).]
    Proud Member of ClanShades

  8. #8
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    i think there are some players who play since ages

    its total clear that there is a difference betwen a newbie and a vet...

    but some newbies know only here campain games
    and cant believe that they won the campain and now loose on such way...

    so they think u cheat or use some codes,
    im always willing to help but some
    are to angry after such loss and leave the game...

    i think too

    that a player needs 150 - 200 games to become a average player

    but there are peeps with more than 2000 games
    (comp) its 1 :10 so....

    koc

  9. #9
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Thx, 200 battles to become average...well better get practising then, have 10 now...

    Learnt that honour ain't all. 5k game and reading about importance of honour, I upped them on my hth units and got obliterated by a player with sooo many more units. He landed everywhere, leaving dead bodies slayed at the sound of my army heading the other way...
    SupremeWannabee

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Dark Phoenix's Avatar
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    Well it is hard to win when starting out if you are outnumbered uit takes a bit of skill and micromanagement.

    Koc I dont think that it requires that many games to become average I may have played 200 games not comp but i think that I would be a bit above average. Well that is what ELmo has told me.

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  11. #11

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    TheSmisker:

    Honor isn't everything, but it is still important. I use high honor units up front and in the center to take the initial charge, then go around and flank with lower honor ones. And in a low koku game remember you can lower honor of some units. It's best to have a balance between honor and number of units, but it also depends on the units, which takes some practice.
    - A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
    - The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    I feel enriched by this thread!

    And, I doubt a reputable player would fly accusations of impropriety out-of-the-bat without at least confronting you beforehand so you can explain whatever might have happened. But heck, if some dweeb accuses you of cheating 'cause you gave him a big ole can of whoopass 'cause he sent H0 ashigarus charging in wedgies at your H4 monkies... he does not deserve the privilege of playing you again. Maintain a list and keep it near your PC.

    LOL I maintain my list with my log reader...

    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  13. #13
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    I enjoy the immediate response one gets in this community, all down to earth and all.

    Ahh, so much to learn! One game, I bundled up on a small hill, thinking I was safer that way, the man gave me a big warm hug, embracing me on all sides...

    Now I understand why some stretch all their units to one big line...



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  14. #14
    Member Member RaZoRstrike's Avatar
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    I believe the tough adjustment from SP to MP is based on the employment of missile units. The AI will not harrass/pound/shoot the sh_ _ out of you the way another person will.

    I also believe that the number of games it takes a new player to become average depends on who they play with/against. I was fortunite to play most of my first 100 games with 3 people who where among the first to play the game. They spent the time talking about our games with me, and suggesting possible solutions to various situations. This was done in a way in which I was not told what to do, but was pointed in the right direction to find it myself.

    I would suggest a new person play as many differant people as possible, at first. Then settle with a group of people, you feel comfortable with, and play as many games as possible.

    The key is to have fun and experience the game. You will see/experience many things: Monk/Heavy Cav/No-dachi/Musket Rushs, Red Zone Tactics, Army formation manuavers, and other things You will not believe. If you see something you do not understand or something you want to duplicate, just ask. Most honourable players will answer your questions, if you are polite.

    Thanks,
    RaZoRstrike

  15. #15
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    I agree, almost all players (only 10 so far) have taken a sense of pride and dignity to their names. I enjoy that, it helps someone who just bought the game 3 weeks ago.

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  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member Erado San's Avatar
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    I don't think there's a vet around here who hasn't been accused of cheating once.

    I am a decent player. Not a good one, but I win a fair share of battles. But if I face a newbie, he has to be a potentially good player, otherwise I can slaughter him.

    Now some people will start yelling after getting beaten badly, others will want to discuss what they did wrong or even try again. The first are the ones to avoid, the second are the ones I like to play. Which has led me to a strategy on who to pick for a battle:

    When I go online, I don't start playing straight away. I look who are online, and can pick out those that I already know. I then stay in the foyer a bit longer, and watch how thos that I don't know behave. If they come out of a game GL'ing eachother, and discussing the battle and perhaps trying one more time, I know that these are the players that I will like to play. A piece of paper and a pen, scribbling names in two columns, called the do's and don't's is all it takes. I then only join battles hosted by people I know or by those in the 'do' column, and I have to say I hardly ever meet a cheater or a rusher or a 'red district tourist', and I usually end up with people that like after battle discussions and rematches.

    And if I host myself, and the person joining doesn't belong to the do's, then I expect anything. If he turns out a cheat, I simply esc the game and ignore the usual flaming you get after that.

    Life can be simple, really.
    A voice from the past is heard in the lands...

  17. #17
    Sideswipe feature king Member shingenmitch2's Avatar
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    to add to what my esteemed coleague, STRIKE, said... There are 3 forms of adjustment to make when playing MP.

    First there is the STRATEGIC adjustment -- figuring out what troops should make up your army, and what their Honor level should be.
    (This can be huge -- I've lost battles before even taking the field, by not having a good army composition)

    Then there is what I call UNIT Tactics--how to actually use the units within your army propperly -- when to move your melee troops, which ones to hold/pin with, how to use the cav propperly. Propper formations for each unit type. Grouping troops propperly, etc. Unit management in general.
    (This can be tough, because of the speed of attack by experienced players is much faster than the AI)

    Then there is the 3rd adjustment, for games where you have allies -- ARMY Tactics. When to attack (even if you are on defense), when to send troops to help an allied army. Propper double teaming techniques, when to be a decoy army, etc. (This too can be crucial, because you might have a perfect army composition, with great unit tactics, but if you don't use the Army as a whole propperly and you get double teamed -- you're dead meat)

    This is why the multiplayer is so difficult to master, and why it is so much more enjoyable to play than the AI. A difficiency in any of these three aspects will mean a loss versus a good opponent(s). Good luck in trying to master these 3 areas.


    Retreat? Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction...

    THE DEADLY SHINGEN



  18. #18
    Member Member RaZoRstrike's Avatar
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    Excellant response MITCH. The hardest thing for me to learn was when NOT to try to help an Ally. Sometimes I still wonder if I have completely grasped this concept.

    NOTE: For new players, when an allied army routs he will take your army with him, if you are nearby. The best response is to withdraw your army when he starts to break. The hard part is judging if your army, entering the fight, will steady your ally or not. This judgement can only be developed with time and experience.

    Thanks,
    RaZoRstrike

  19. #19
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Sweet, you guys. Sampling the knowledge, sampling it...

    In about 2 yrs (if STW still around) I'll take you head-on and dominate you all LOL!

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  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    That will be a day that will live in infamy, indeed!


    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  21. #21
    Sideswipe feature king Member shingenmitch2's Avatar
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    Ah grasshopper ... we can only show you the path ... it is you who must walk it.

    (while on the path, avoid Cape's nasty bunny with sharp pointy teeth that nip and bite...
    What? Behind the rabbit?
    It IS the RABBIT!)

    ---

    Anyone else have a problem with Sergeant Major's plan for marching oop and doon the square? Right! Now off you go!

    [This message has been edited by shingenmitch2 (edited 05-23-2001).]
    Retreat? Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction...

    THE DEADLY SHINGEN



  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    it's not cape's bunny that bothers me, it's elm's gay monks ;) i've lost more ashigaru that way.

    K.

  23. #23
    Member Member Dunhill's Avatar
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    Red-district tourist...very good. I'll have to remember that.

    Hope you can find some good players, although the fun is in playing new people with different tactics.

    Cheers,


  24. #24
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Aww, you guys. How much time is spent on STW? My brother accused me of being succumbed by the idea of samurais and so... Nerd-status enhanced by 230 percent.

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  25. #25
    Member Member Shuko's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Erado San:
    [B]I don't think there's a vet around here who hasn't been accused of cheating once.


    I have been online for about 3 months now and am still learning. I attacked along the edge of a mountain and one of my cav units disappeared. I played on and eventually lost the 2v2 game. However the opponents accused me of cheating (first time ever).It took several minutes before I understood that I had used 'the red zone' and they understood that this was not intentional.We ended up ok but I still wonder if they really believed this was a genuine accident and I don't know what damage has been done to my name. Pehaps all newbies should be given a site to visit where all the honourable rules and etiquette are clearly explained together with downloading the patches and extra maps etc.

    The one thing that really pisses me off is the loftiness of some strongish players who before,during and after a game say nothing and don't even reply to your 'gg' whether they win or lose. You can understand that in a newbie because they don't know any better although I usually try to educate them a little afterwards.

    I avoid certain players now because they are so arrogant and rude to all in the foyer. Most of the players in the foyer cringe when these few idiots or cheats arrive.

    Happy to play and learn from all honourable players. I have learnt a fair bit from post game discussions, whether I have won or lost the game. Have made some good friends too.

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    website for CO-OP SP Campaign is : http://www.totalwar.org/maltz/SP_Campaign/.

  26. #26
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    "Red Zone"
    What is that, and how does it affect game?

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  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    the 'red zone' is that area around the perimeter of the map that you can't just click on and move into. officially it's 2 tiles wide all the way around the map.

    however, it is possible to have units enter this zone by some map effects and also by some movement orders. the effect is that your opponent cant touch you because he cant enter the red zone. so some have taken to setting up guns in the red zone where they cant be touched and just firing away without a care in the world. it's a 'loophole' in the game and can is often classified as an abuse or cheat.

    there are instances on some maps where you cant avoid going into the red zone, most notaably if trees are nearby and units take a route around the trees rather than through them. cav units will often avoid going into trees and try to find a way around them. if the trees are near the red zone the cav may go around the trees by entering the red zone. there are other map features that could cause this to happen as well.

    most players dont abuse this feature once they realize what it can do and anyone can suddenly find troops in the red zone due to hurried movement orders or by map features and simply move them out again. and that's the way to handle this for now. you get a reputation for red zoning and some folks will quit playing you, so in the long run it's not a very good survival tactic.

    K.


    [This message has been edited by Kraellin (edited 05-29-2001).]

  28. #28

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    One thing to remember in team games: have a coordinated attack! This means you can split off IF there is a plan, otherwise stick together. And attack close to or at the same time. I just played a game where my ally charged straight up a hill to the other player, not waiting for me. When I got there I was fighting my opponent, had him surrounded, but then my ally's army routed and took me with it. If he stayed with me then we most likely would have won.

    ------------------
    - A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
    - The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.
    - A conclusion is simply the place where someone got tired of thinking.
    - The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history.

  29. #29
    Member Member TheSmisker's Avatar
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    Thx for the info guys. Lifeline as you are...

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