Sweboz historical guide

[anubis88]

Hi everyone.
After a long time i came back to eb. I stopped playing it because i played the "civilized" factions to death and quite frankly got bored.

So now i started playing with the barbarians. I played with the Arverni, the Aedui and even the Sweboz.
I played the Arverni till rome bacame to strong, and now playing the aedui i fear i'm gonna get crushed by the romano-germanic alliance.
With the Arverni and Aedui the goals were clear cut. Since i enjoy playing historically i tried not to crush the arverni but only took one province for them, and only when need of money was dire i conquered two more gallic provinces but made the allies. I could've conquered everything in site, but then the game just loses fun for me.

So what i would like to know now is how to play with the Sweboz. I mean, what would they do? which provinces did they conquer (at least formaly) how small should my kingdom be kept? Which goverments to install in the conquered provinces? where would they direct their conquering? North, west east or south? and so on and so on.

I would really apreciate if anyone who knows Suebi history could give me a hint or two

Thanks in advance


P.S.

Also if anyone has a historical view on the Arverni, Casse or Lusotana, feel free to chip in your knowledge, since i might try them too

[Macilrille]

Strictly speaking none...

Game terms though... Denmark, Rügen, I forget those barbaroi province names... if I get time I will be back to you, but Cmaq might be able to enlighten you as well as he is an American archeologist with that as his speciality.

[anubis88]

Strictly speaking none...

Game terms though... Denmark, Rügen, I forget those barbaroi province names... if I get time I will be back to you, but Cmaq might be able to enlighten you as well as he is an American archeologist with that as his speciality.

Really? wow.
Hope to hear from him soon

[Macilrille]

Well... I am a Danish historian, I can easily spend hours telling you about the subject, I just cannot remember the province names, sorry.

Perhaps I should go and conquer them in my Res Publica Romani campaign and check it ;-)

[anubis88]

Were those provinces under Suebi control? or is their maximum already what they have at the start of EB?

[Macilrille]

Not really the germans never really formed any nation as such during EB timescale, nor even a confederation covering a province. However, to reflect the German threat and because people like the Germans, 30 small Eleutheroi provinces would not do. So they gave the Suebi/Sweboz a single province from which to expand, which is very ahistorical, but probably the only way it could be easily done.

[anubis88]

wow.... Now that is something i didn't want to hear. But thanks anyways. You've been really helpful

[desert]

You could probably start expanding west in a hundred to a hundred and fifty years.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

If only the RTW engine allowed for more faction slots we could have a second German faction to balance teh Sweboz.

[Macilrille]

But two would not even be enough, you would need 4-6 to reflect what we think was going on in Germany, but we know very little with certainty...

[Cyclops]

The Germani arrive on the Roman scene with a bang about 113 BC, when the Cimbri and Teutones storm through central Europe into Gaul and Italy. I don't think the Sweboz are named until Caears day, is that right? Their heirs end up invading Spain during the Völkerwanderung.

To represent this in EB terms, the Sweboz player might (as suggested above) conquer the two provinces to their north, maybe add scandinavia, sit still for 150 years (=600 turns!), then conduct a monster raid toward the Scordisci city, sack it, sack Noricum, sack several alpine provinces, tackle the Averni, raid into Iberia and then descend on Liguria.

This would be a great challenge, first to survive the northward expansion of Rome which tends to happen well before its historical Augustan time-frame, then to resist holding one's conquests and continue peregrinating.

Maybe an historically defensible course of action would be to give yourself a plausible set of RolePlay guidelines. The devs built some hints into the game mechanics. First up you could "unite the tribes" one province at a time, then send out occasional raiding armies to weaken neighbours. Maybe half stacks could be sent out on kamikaze missions, attack settlements and sack them, then move on (abandoning citries for recapture/revolt) until the stack is eliminated to represent intermitent booty raids.

Once you hit 190 BC you could expand into some type 2 areas, entering the Germano-Celtic phase posited by the reformed unit-mix. You wouldn't need to conquer the entire alps, just one of the "iron" cities needed to activate the reforms.

That done you could send out some serious incursions (like the famous Cimbri one), perhaps fullstacks this time, including some reformed units? They could head out on a sackfest if you like, but Roman historians felt they were looking for a new home: when would they find it? Remember they heade to Iberia (later a Suebi target).

Each time the wandering stack take a certain key city role a die, and if you get a 1 they settle down and you can develop the city as a type III or VI govt. The Cimbri wandered down to the Balkans, through the alps, into Gaul, into Iberia, into Italy, so maybe pick a juicy city in each area, and send them to capture them one at a time until their number comes up. Alternately you could sack every city in a clockwise arc starting with the Scordisci. If you could put a FM of the right ethnicity in charge of each stack that'd be nice RPing.

Of course you'd be hoping to suceed in building your new tribal land, but the engine makes it hard to survive as pure Sweboz and they'd rapidly become a celtic or iberian culture city, with a Vollorix and regional troops defending them.

In my recent Sweboz campaign (crashed irrevocably about 210 BC, 2 cities from victory) I RP'd "allied kingdoms", with a local ruler and appropriate regional troops (eg in Massilia I was going to choose if the city was Celtic or Greek dominated, then recruit that type almost exclusively). So I had a modest Sweboz core kingdom minding its own business, and then a bunch of satellite states engaged in regional conflicts.

There were Balts getting walloped by huge rebel stacks in a drive eatward (a really excellent mod feature, the renewing reb uberstacks), alpine Celts fighting Rome and Averni, Danube Celts fighting Rome and Epiros, rather scrawny pre-reform Belgae fighting Aedui, all with the help of the odd Sweboz royal army if they were under too much pressure. It was quite a satisfying little game.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

To put it simply, Sweboz should expand first northwards, then westwards, then southwards, then eastwards. In that order.

Only take as many towns as you need to keep your economy in profit. Then concentrate on developing those towns until you either can't develop them any more or start losing money again. Only then expand further.

Barbarians expand only when they don't have enough room to live in their existing territories (i.e. the economy isn't working anymore and you are losing money.)

Sweboz should avoid fighting the Sauromatae for as long as possible. Sweboz troops are outclassed by horse archers and heavy cataphracts. But the Gauls are fair game.

Italy should be raided but not conquered permanently. Sack Rome, exterminate the population, grab all the money, and go back home to celebrate!

[cmacq]

Strictly speaking none...

Game terms though... Denmark, Rügen, I forget those barbaroi province names... if I get time I will be back to you, but Cmaq might be able to enlighten you as well as he is an American archeologist with that as his speciality.

Actually to be fair, my area of expertise is in the American Southwest; or more specifically the central highlands of Arizona. However, it seems I may be a quick study and for some reasons, find myself looking into the archaeology of Holland, Denmark, Germany, Poland, Sweden, Norway, Austria, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungry, Romania, the Baltic States, Belarus, the Ukraine, and western Russia.

And...
technically the Boii were of Germania; the Cimbros were first mentioned in the Odyssey; and the Guthons were referenced by Pytheas in the 4th century BC, most likely when they still ran southern Sweden. But again, technically they were considered Germans because that region was also considered part of Germania.


CmacQ

[Husker98]

what i alway's do is keep my germanic realm North of the Danube and east of the Rhine with the exception of maybe one or two provinces west of it. unfotunantley since there can't be more factions in Germania it is really tough to represent the turmoil and lack of coehesion these tribes had.

[Ca Putt]

my sweboz house rules:

I - Organising the tribes
1. build up a "unified" germania in the area with homeland res.(- one or two perhaps)
2*. form armies that consist purely of troops from one province(maybe 2) according to the Leaders ethinictiy. armies may merge but troops may bot be "swaped"
2a*. keep troops always connected to their FM(and give them to his oldest son if he dies or is a governer)
3*. once a year role a dice for every unit(Gaizoz Frije, Jugunthiz, Skutjanz) if they stay in the army or are disbanded(they die in tribal quarrels or just settle down again)

II - Taunting the neighbors
4. let FMs raid randomly.
4a. if they manage to conquer a reigion of the victory conditions i sometimes keep the province and let some levies behind. this is even more probable if they see potential in the conquered People ;) [they allow the recruitment of cool troops]
5.* if the population grows over the minor city level(or when the population would decreace although the taxes are mimised - the population is starving) recruit levys, unite all armies of associated Ethnicity and go on a massive raid to a province at that looks as if it would be a more pleasant place to live(sunny)
5a. during this rule 3 does not apply.
6. role a dice if they settle or go further
7. if they settle build a level 3 or 4 gov, recruit local troops and disband all Gaizoz Frije and maybe the Jugunthiz and Skutjanz aswell.

III - Government.
8. Germanic rulers are elected by all free men - i choose factin heirs according to the population the most influencial man of the tribe with the biggest Populance becomes Heir.
9. Make a clear cut between Raiding Parties, emigrating Treks and Raiding Armies.

*: only applies to germanic troops/provinces. non germanic troops may be swaped between FMs.

these house rules don't reflect the actual movement of the sweboz but what a loose alliance under Sweboz hegemony(which would be rather unlikely but seemingly the only way to play AS the germans without getting bored) could have done according to my interpretation of Tacitus^^
Technically I don't play as a united empire but as a bunch of tribes that rather kill other people than each other, nothing more.


may be unpractical at some point but, hey, it's the Sweboz :D

[Havok.]

I would certainly like to hear more House rules for the Sweboz, since i never really know what-to-do when i play them, and when i have a large amount of territory, it seems its just not barbaric, then i quit the campaign



If anyone there who is willing to share your House Rules for the Sweboz, please share with us in here.

[Tollheit]

First, remember that the Baltic Sea was known as Mare Suebicum back in the days. Secure the northern part of the Amber Route for your profit.

Following Tacitus' Germania (AD 98), the following gentes and territories belonged to the Suebi (=Sweboz) confederation:

- Reudigni, Aviones, Anglii (=Angles), Varini, Eudoses, Suarini, Nuitones (=Teutones?); => Gawjam-Kimbroz

-the Suiones => Gawjam-Skandzawarjos

-the Gothones, Rugii, Lemovii along the Baltic Sea => Gawjam-Rugoz, Gawjam-Gotanoz, Ascacaulis

-the Aestii and the Sitones, beyond the Aestii along the coast => Gintaras-Ostan, Seliun-Pilis

-the Lugii, (once an important Celto-Germanic federation,) including the Harii (who appear in EB as the Silesian Woithiz Wotho aka Skaduganganz), Helvecones, Manimi, Helsii and Naharvali => Gawjam-Silengoz & Carrodunum (Lugow)


Finally, grab Vindelicoppidos & Vesontio in memoriam of Ariovistus, and grab Eburonum in memoriam of Marbod and his Marcomanni.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

The game itself supports the expansion directions of the Sweboz. The settlements to the north are unwalled and under garrisonned therefore are the easiest to hit. Then you go west up to the Rhine river, with the walled German settlements there these fights are harder but you can still win. The same for the unwalled settlements just to the east of the Start province, over garrisonned but still win able. The Celts of the south are another story entirely, they have strong wood and stone walls to block your advance, and well crafted weapons and armor. These are to be taken once your army is up and running full speed.
The East... well thats a world war waiting to happen. Once you hit Lugouw, and Ebornum you gotta deal with the SUPORZ-INDIEZ!!!!! You know the 10-25 star Generals with the golden exp, and weapon, heavy Celtic infantry and cavalry, that respawn in one or two turns after you beat the **** outta them once. These insane forces are backed up by the Settlements governor, whom is also a 10 star general with gold troops! To take this down u need to do one of two thing.
1.FLOOD: Spam as many troops as you can, even driving yourself into deep debt if necessary, Put them in full stack mode and go nuts. If you can overpower them you win because they wont be able to respawn the troops back fast enough to halt u.
2.Spies flood: Use one army to distract the wandering SUPOR general, then start spamming spies into the target settlement until you are sure that you can open the gate. Then use a no turn siege a take the settlement. With this done the SUPOR-INDEZ cannot respawn anymore so mop up whatever is left and the province is urs.

As i have never gotten this far the rest is up to u.

As for house rules, i got three
1.Fight all battles personally. Much more fun.
2.Dont not expand beyond the Rhine until you have defeated one SUPOR-INDEZ general.
3.Never use captains armies, ALWAYS have a general. This is historical as no sane warlord would let anyone else get credit to undermine him.