Syrakousai - A case for a new faction

[V.T. Marvin]

Excellent case, Hax! I sincerelly hope that Syracusae WILL be included as a faction.
BTW: consider how many people play her anyway in migration campaigns.

As far as military is concerned, I believe that cavalry shall not be omitted: Thukydides account surprisingly strong cavalry contingents in Syracusan and her allies´ armies during Peloponnesian war. Of course, this is far from EB tie-frame, but one can assume that if there once was a rather strong cavalry tradition, it would not be abandoned completely 150 later.

I am afraid that when not in the hands of the human player they would only ever become a regional power at most, perhaps taking Sicily and Bruttium before being conquerd by the Romans.

This not a very good argument. The same could be said about Pontos...

Nevertheless, there is a good chance that Syracusae will endure, because if they manage to conquer Sicily, they would have one ore two stacks in Messana-Rhegion area, making Rome reluctant to attack and sustain the pressure thither. Heck, I have seen Carthage AI (which is distracted by her numerous other fronts) to expand from Lylibeo as as far as Bononia in my EB 1.1. Pahlava campaign. So there is a chance.

Another pertinent question is how well the M2TW engine copes with naval force/invasios???

[Hax]

Another pertinent question is how well the M2TW engine copes with naval force/invasios???

It's way better than in RTW, and I think it's moddable to some extent.

We could always give them belly bows.

Ah yes of course, the Gastraphetes. However, was it used in large numbers enough to warrant a unit slot in EB II? From what I've found on the internets it says that the gastraphetes was invented around 400 BC (though some historians place it earlier around 425 BC). I'm pretty sure that the Syrakousioi would have good access to artillery though (which would be their main point in the game), as they invented a lot of those bolt-shooters.

[Hax]

Updated the first post with some information concerning the Syrakousian military.

[zooeyglass]

Updated the first post with some information concerning the Syrakousian military.

excellent case for a new faction - i am very much in favour (though of course my opinion counts for nothing) of these extended researched presentations for factions, rather than just yelling out names. so well done Hax, twas a good read, and could prompt some further good ideas.

[Cartaphilus]

Nice thread.

But, when we have another preview of a new official/real faction?

[Beefy187]

Im absolutely for Syracuse. Their presense should make Sicily chaos with Epeirus, Karthage, Rome and Syracuse

[Bucefalo]

Very well written Hax, It is nice to see more people interested in the Syrakousai faction

Here are a few quotes i found on the internet about the use of cavalry in larger numbers than other greeks (athenian, on the Sicilian expedition)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Expedition

The Athenian troops landed outside Syracuse, and lined up eight men deep with the Argives and Mantineans on the right, the rest of the allies on the left, and the Athenians themselves in the centre. The Syracusans were deployed sixteen men deep, in order to offset the advantage of the Athenians in experience. They also had 1,200 cavalry, vastly outnumbering the Athenian cavalry, although the total numbers of men were about the same. The Athenians attacked first, believing themselves to be the stronger and more experienced army, and after some unexpectedly strong resistance, the Argives pushed back the Syracusan left wing, causing the rest to flee. The Syracusan cavalry prevented the Athenians from chasing them, thereby averting a catastrophe for the Syracusans, who lost about 260 men, and the Athenians about 50. The Athenians then sailed back to Catana for the winter.

On September 13, the Athenians left camp leaving their wounded behind and their dead unburied. The survivors, including all the non-combatants, numbered 40,000, and some of the wounded crawled after them as far as they could go. As they marched they defeated a small Syracusan force guarding the river Anapus, but other Syracusan cavalry and light troops continually harassed them.

Another interesting read is the chapter VI of Thucydides´ History of the Peloponnesian War, who talks about the Sicilian expedition with more details.

http://www.bostonleadershipbuilders....des/book06.htm

Here is a interesting quote i found:
The Syracusans, meanwhile, formed their heavy infantry sixteen deep, consisting of the mass levy of their own people, and such allies as had joined them, the strongest contingent being that of the Selinuntines; next to them the cavalry of the Geloans, numbering two hundred in all, with about twenty horse and fifty archers from Camarina


I hope it is useful for you Hax