Beta Impressions Article

[bloodshed]

http://www.totalwar.org.pl/?ArtId=699

[Mailman653]

15 minute wait time?!

"Destroyed faction comes back as rebels with special flag."


"Not everything is so good though, there is a relatively small units differentiation in most states. Colour of uniforms is often the only noticeable difference."
It's to be expected IMO.


"Unfortunately, variety of units is not too big, no doubts about that, especially if we compare it with Napoleonic II: Total War. The Lordz managed to make different variations even of such standard units as line infantry. In ETW the same units (musketeers, pikiners, grenadiers, dragons etc.) look exactly the same and have the same unit cards, descriptions (copy/paste method). "


"Another interesting units are American Trappers who can stay in hiding while marching."
So if I have half my army with trappers, the AI will only see the other half...interesting.

Among other things in the article, sounds like an honest opinion to me.

[TB666]

Well as I stated over at TWC.
1. Has the NDA been lifted ??
2. He admits to playing on a average computer so expect long turns(EB took forever on my previous computer I remember).
3. Old build

So not a very good view of the game but interesting nonetheless.

[Vuk]

I am waiting till I hear from other players. If an AI turn can take 15 minutes, I am not buying this game.

[Monk]

Well as I stated over at TWC.
1. Has the NDA been lifted ??
2. He admits to playing on a average computer so expect long turns(EB took forever on my previous computer I remember).
3. Old build

So not a very good view of the game but interesting nonetheless.

This is the most pressing and we need to figure this out ASAP. An NDA breach is a very serious matter, one we don't take lightly.

[CBR]

Didn't some other site also release some preview reporting same problem with long AI turns? Most likely same build sent out for review.


CBR

[TB666]

This is the most pressing and we need to figure this out ASAP. An NDA breach is a very serious matter, one we don't take lightly.

Only thing I can think of is that the NDA could be lifted if this guy played a very early build.
If he played a recent build I would be 100% sure that the NDA would still be in effect until release day.

Didn't some other site also release some preview reporting same problem with long AI turns?

Yes PCgamer but not 15 minutes.
Of course they no doubt played it on a better computer then this guy.
But that means that it's a recent build which again brings up the question, has the NDA been lifted ??

[USS Providence 1972]

I am waiting till I hear from other players. If an AI turn can take 15 minutes, I am not buying this game.

The 15 minute wait time is just a reflection of the depth of the game. There is a lot more to do in this game. It doesn't bother me if I'm getting a challenging game.

[Monk]

The 15 minute wait time is just a reflection of the depth of the game. There is a lot more to do in this game. It doesn't bother me if I'm getting a challenging game.

Personally I think there's 2 alternative options to explain the 15 min mark, other than that it really does take that long.

1. The reviewer had either not enough RAM(or any other spec) or the bare minimum in order to run it, which seriously lagged the entire game. Not just turn times.

2.It's a gross exageration of a real problem.

[Sir Beane]

The 15 minute wait time is just a reflection of the depth of the game. There is a lot more to do in this game. It doesn't bother me if I'm getting a challenging game.

I hope you realise that if you play 200 turns at 15 minutes you are wasting 3000 minutes waiting for the computer to take its turn. Thats 50 hours. Two days. Two days of wait time for a full campaign. That doesn't even factor in the time it will take to play your own turns. That is a rediculously long wait, and I really hope it isn't the case in the final version.

The game can be challenging without wasting huge periods of time thinking.

[tibilicus]

sometimes you have to spend way too much time waiting for AI’s moves. In example, managing Khanate of the Crimea can take the AI up to... 15 minutes!

That doesn't sound to good..




*Edit*

Damn you people when I'm the first to read a thread but decide to go AFK for an hour don't psot my point!

[tibilicus]

AI often proposes alliances and, what’s even more important, doesn’t break them.

Well at least that seems promising.

Also what's this NDA your all talking about?

[Monk]

Well at least that seems promising.

Also what's this NDA your all talking about?

It stands for Non Disclosure Agreement. It's an agreement you sign when partaking in a closed beta that basically says you will not disclose what the game has to offer to people outside of the beta until CA says you can. Open betas don't have them.

The concern comes from the fact that CA (and the gaming industry as a whole) takes NDAs very very seriously, breaking them is a serious no-no.

[Sir Beane]

Well at least that seems promising.

Also what's this NDA your all talking about?

Games companies usually make sure that the press don't review a game before a certain date. There is usually an agreement not to release a review before this date, even if you happen to have played the game and written one up. This article may have broken that.

I very much doubt it will be an NDA. A Non-Disclosure Agreement is much more serious than voluntary press silence, and has legal repercussions for those who break it. CA employees may have signed one, but I don't think anyone else would have.

There are a lot of questions brought up by this review, making me want to play the game even more. I fully expected the lack of unit variety, given that units were pretty similar historically, except for uniform colour. Gne are the days of every man picking his own weapon and armor and using his own coat-of-arms. You'll look and fight the same as everyone else and like it!

[TB666]

I very much doubt it will be an NDA. A Non-Disclosure Agreement is much more serious than voluntary press silence, and has legal repercussions for those who break it. CA employees may have signed one, but I don't think anyone else would have.

I have been in several beta tests and all of them required me to sign a NDA.

[Aide de camp]

"Not everything is so good though, there is a relatively small units differentiation in most states. Colour of uniforms is often the only noticeable difference."
It's to be expected IMO.


"Unfortunately, variety of units is not too big, no doubts about that, especially if we compare it with Napoleonic II: Total War. The Lordz managed to make different variations even of such standard units as line infantry. In ETW the same units (musketeers, pikiners, grenadiers, dragons etc.) look exactly the same and have the same unit cards, descriptions (copy/paste method). "

Doesn't worry me or surprise too much.
In Shogun all factions had the same units and I can still remember that many of my Shogun battles were some of the best battles I've played in any TW game. So, I think a huge variety of units isn't necessary to experience good battles.

Moreover, this is not a Medieval or Rome, where there is a great variety of equipment: sword, spear, axe, pike, warhammer, ..., bow, crossbow, sling, early guns (Med) ... shield/ no shield, no armour / chainmail / plate armour... armoured/non armoured horses, ...
In the ETW era all main europeans factions/ US will use mainly the same kind of weapons: pike (early part of the game imo), musket / rifle (with bayonet) for infantry and sword / spear (+ guns) for cavalry; no armour for infantry, for cavalry in some cases. Of course there were many exceptions in this era (non-european factions, some european/US units) and I hope they are included in ETW!

But hey, this time we don't only have variety of units in land battles but also in sea battles!

[Belgolas]

Yeah M2TW only takes a few seconds to complete the AI's turn. It would extremely suck to have the time to have a meal or a shower or do what ever in between each turn.

I am sure it will get fixed.

There were some good points in there aswell. Like the AI keeps alliances.

[Vuk]

I am serious, if the wait is anything like that (and I got a really crappy computer so it would probably be more) I am not buying it. You cannot play a game like that, it is ridiculous. Also, many of the units looking the same does not bother me, as long as they are not breaching the bounds of historical accuracy. If soldiers looked the same, they looked the same. I know they did not all look exactly alike (their uniforms and equipment did have variations and trends), but if CA approximates, I do not care. It is the scarey thing about the loading times that has me worried. Thank goodness Amazon lets you cancel preorders. :P

[Sir Beane]

I am serious, if the wait is anything like that (and I got a really crappy computer so it would probably be more) I am not buying it. You cannot play a game like that, it is ridiculous. Also, many of the units looking the same does not bother me, as long as they are not breaching the bounds of historical accuracy. If soldiers looked the same, they looked the same. I know they did not all look exactly alike (their uniforms and equipment did have variations and trends), but if CA approximates, I do not care. It is the scarey thing about the loading times that has me worried. Thank goodness Amazon lets you cancel preorders. :P

You are completely right about a wait that long being rediculous. Don't worry two much about it however. It may be an exaggeration, or an outright mistake. That review isn't what I'd consider to be a cast-irn source of information. Plus he was playing a beta, so they could still be finalising code in order to streamline things.

I wouldn't cancel your pre-order just yet.

[ByzanKing]

I am with Vuk on this one. Even if the wait time would be 10 minutes I would not buy the game. I play SS 6.1 and the 3-4 min wait between turns is killer enough, I can't and don't want to imagine 15 minutes.

[Belgolas]

I am sure they will fix this. They have to or no one will play it. Man you know how much that would suck.

[Lord Ovaat]

I find it hard to believe there's a fifteen minute turn sequence. I've never seen anything even resembling that in any other TW, or mod, for that matter. Currently playing SS, and lag is actually far less than a minute. Could it simply be that he has opted to watch the AI moves? Personally, I'm just too old for that. I could die before the campaign is finished. I have a decent machine, but it's not now cutting edge, with most parts being about two years old. Let's not panic until we see it.

[Sol Invictus]

That must have been a bug specific to that Faction. There is not a chance that the AI will take that long in the final release. Don't panic.

[Barkhorn1x]

That must have been a bug specific to that Faction. There is not a chance that the AI will take that long in the final release. Don't panic.

I agree - 15 minutes is nuts. And the "reviewer" may be as well.

[Sir Beane]

I agree - 15 minutes is nuts. And the "reviewer" may be as well.

I assume the reviewer is Polish, which would explain the partially broken English. Perhaps 15 minutes is a mistake in translation? Who knows? That long a turn time does seem unlikely however.

I urge everyone again to try not to let the article influence them too much. Wait for longer, better wirtten reviews before panicking.

There are still plenty of chances for Empire to shine .

[Discoman]

If it was really 15 minutes then it wouldn't have got that 94 from PC Gamer. When it comes to turns my only concern is the 200 turn limit; it doesn't seem enough time to suit my needs.

[TB666]

Well the guy that wrote it replied over at the TWC.
He said that the 15 minutes turn only happened once and person that tried it had a poor computer

As to 15 minutes for AI turn. It was already explained that it happened only once and for the guy with the worst computer of 3, so fear not, all those "15 minutes aaaaa" people. It'll be allright.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...37#post4464637

[Sir Beane]

Well the guy that wrote it replied over at the TWC.
He said that the 15 minutes turn only happened once and person that tried it had a poor computer


http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...37#post4464637

Excellent! Nice find TB666

[bloodshed]

Isnt there a button to skip AI movement which would make it only a few seconds to get through everyone. Unless your talking about this with the option already turned on.

[knoddy]

yes bloodshed, but this only effects units u can see, ie if theres an ai unit not in fog in your border they move real fast :)

im not too worried bout the lack of unit variety. the problem with previous TW games is that u used unit variety to have different campaigns. ie an egpyt campaign was different to a england campaign because u had different units, however with the beefed up diplomacy in empire i think that will provide a much greater difference in how your game plays out. especially with factions holding grudges and being influenced by gov. types etc. in 1 camp u mite annoy your neighbour and will go to war but then u play as another faction and u could get heaps friendly with the same faction and have a long and prosperous relationship :)

also naval battles will help with the lack of variety

Cheers Knoddy