europa barbarorum's economy/ or anything u dont like about eb

[waydog98]

now im a huge eb fan nd thinks its the most realistic mod out there but would any one agree that its economy is a bit lame although much better then vanilla or other mods.. i mean realisticly a single city like syracuse or athens would have been able to support large field armies nd navies without going into the negatives... also cities with major ports would have been able to transport goods to regions really far away like india... im sure its a distance problem but that would be cool if you could decide what cities to trade with. Also i think the farming income is a bit light in most regions... tell me what u guys think

[Zett]

That are all (except the farming income) hard coded issues. So there is nearly nothing that the EB team could do about them. Perhaps you could give +50 trade fleets to the big trading cities (if it is possible) and then one of the trade routs could make it to India.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Maion Maroneios]

Not to say that no city could field huge armies on it's own. Ever. They used funds from allies/suboordinates to do so. For example, Athens, even though she was a quite prosperous city during the Persian Wars, could field about 10,000 male citizen hoplites plus several thousand light troops at most, and that with help of surrounding cities and villages, as well as an extensive farming system stretching around the region of Attica.

Maion

[seienchin]

Every City in Rome stands for a region, so its quite hard to understand why Sparta or Athens can only field big armies alone, when controlled by the Computer

[ziegenpeter]

Not to say that no city could field huge armies on it's own. Ever. They used funds from allies/suboordinates to do so. For example, Athens, even though she was a quite prosperous city during the Persian Wars, could field about 10,000 male citizen hoplites plus several thousand light troops at most, and that with help of surrounding cities and villages, as well as an extensive farming system stretching around the region of Attica.

Maion

...as - due to the region and the RTWs engines limits - depicted by the City of Athens. So waydog is right, I guess.

[MButcher]

[Disclaimer: Nothing I say here is meant to be offensive to the EB team.]

Two things I don't quite like about EB are:

1. Every faction starts out with just about the same amount of money. Sure, some start out with 3,000, but most others start out at 5,000. I don't see how this is realistic. Shouldn't historically rich factions start out with just a tad more?

2. The barracks in EB are similar to those in Vanilla RTW. What I mean is that you start out with barracks that can produce mostly levies, then you gradually have to build them up to the point where you can field elites. To use the Arche Seleukia and Ptolemaoi as an example, shouldn't they be able to recruit Hetairoi and Hypaspistai by 272 B.C.E.?

[mini]

1) too damn addictive

2) too slow to make: give EB on mtw2 engine NOW plz :D

in addition to point 2: and give EB on ETW engine next month, aight!

[ziegenpeter]

@MButcher: I don't know if mini wanted to say the same about 2. but I didn't like it either and I was told that if you enable Elite units from the beginning the AI would spam them.

[mini]

my 2 points had nothing to do with what Mbutcher posted :)

[MButcher]

@MButcher: I don't know if mini wanted to say the same about 2. but I didn't like it either and I was told that if you enable Elite units from the beginning the AI would spam them.

I thought about that too and I think the easiest way to fix the spamming of elites is by increasing the number of turns it takes to recruit them by one. I tried this on the Romani to stop them from spamming Triarii and Pedites, and strangely it worked. They field balanced armies because of it.

[soup_alex]

A couple of things limit my own enjoyment of this, otherwise excellent, game.

1) AI stupidity! Though obviously not a fault of EB or the EB team.

2) While I can live with every faction starting with an arbitrary amount of money, as I imagine it would be very difficult to establish exactly how much wealth a particular kingdom or empire had at its disposal at a particular time in history. What irritates me is how every faction's economy is set to plummet at game start unless the player does something sharpish to arrest its decline (typically by warring with the far more powerful independent neighbours, or else just disbanding armies). I like that this encourages strategy and controls the rate at which all factions can expand, but being put in a situation where your empire's coffers can't support its armies seems unbalanced and perhaps ahistorical.

[V.T. Marvin]

What irritates me is how every faction's economy is set to plummet at game start unless the player does something sharpish to arrest its decline (typically by warring with the far more powerful independent neighbours, or else just disbanding armies). I like that this encourages strategy and controls the rate at which all factions can expand, but being put in a situation where your empire's coffers can't support its armies seems unbalanced and perhaps ahistorical.

Hmm, I would say the contrary - you have an army for a purpose - to wage war.
Now, if you want war and expand - you have an army for that from the start.
Or you want to stay in peace and look after your bussiness - well you just disband the troops.

Note that at those time almost none of the states depicted in EB did have a large standing army. Rather the overwhelming majority of troops were levied/hired for a specific campaign only to return back to their fields once it ended.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Farming income in a region is tied to population growth. To keep exploding populations down, the farming income took a big hit in EB.

Trade fleets are actually hardcoded to the port level. No matter what the description says, each port level gains 1 trade fleet, up to 3.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

EB Economy is actually what makes it so challenging. There are many modifications where you are already swimming in cash by day one, and that might also be true for the Romani. I just hope they start with less generous pecuniary possibilities for the next release since this is bringing the polish of this faction a bit down, in my opinion.

Furthermore it is my firm belief that the Hellenistic Suine must be razed from the ground and their survivors boiled alive to free us from their putrid stain on the earth once and for all.

[Os-Q]

Hmm, the only gripe I have about EB's economics is how little an effect trade caravans have compared to the cost and time it takes to build them. This is mostly because Saba and the steppe factions don't have very good trade in their starting areas.

Rather than messing with trade, I'm considering modding in happiness bonuses to the mid and higher level caravan routes, since the Sauromatae lack good public order buildings anyway.

The other gripes I have are usually about hardcoded things. The AI thinks phalanxes are invinclble (and often are in auto-calc), no diplomacy, etc.

[desert]

The thing about armies is that often you would use them for only a turn or two, and then disband them. That's why they wouldn't be too expensive usually. A good way to simulate this is to give units 0-turn recruitment times, but that unfortunately messes up the AI.

In the Peloponnesian War, Athens could support several thousand hoplites, 10-20K peltasts and psiloi, and 300 triremes with their starfleet-size crews, even though it had suffered the loss of up to 1/3 of its (Attica's) population during the plague. Although it was mostly because they got mad money from Type IV governments and Protectorates.

[seienchin]

Im thinking about an Economy Mini Mod, but I dont know if I have the free time for it
I would increase the Tax Money and trade in Home provinces and increase the corruption in all the other provinces.
Arche Seleukia would get a Tax minus around 70% in all of their Level 2-4 Provinces and instead get Money from the temples they build to resemble their Tax system, which was entirely based on temple taxes.