February Preview!

[paullus]

and most of the hoplitai in Makedonian armies would have been Hellenes, not Makedonians, thus we used shield devices from those regions and city-states which most often contributed troops to their armies.

as for IFF difficulties, the "royal" units will probably end up being more uniform than they are now (single color or shades of a single color on all their shields, for example) which will help to some extent, though the colors may actually be very similar between Hellenistic kingdoms. Just remember, we'll have men carrying banners, that'll help.

[Martelus Flavius]

Well, if its not the Pergamum Hoplite, that would be sweet. The Western Greek colonies would be sweet.

It is absolutely not in our habit, to label somethin already revelead as occultus... Isn't it?

Sincerly yours

Martel

[Phalanx300]

Then it is confirmed, there will be another Hellenic or Hellenic influenced faction in EB2 besides Pergamon!

[Subotan]

Curses! I bug the EB team for weeks to bring up another Stele, and then my computer breaks, so the EB team releases a Stele. *Mutters*
Looks good though EBers. Keep up the good work.

[Anakuj]

EB Team,

I have never seen such a marvellous, enthralling piece of art ever!

All the best, and Keep It Up!

[machinor]

Just remember, we'll have men carrying banners, that'll help.

SWEET!!

[Bucefalo]

I love them!

Although i don´t know if someone mentioned this before, but some of the screens look to bright to me, i guess that is because of the render or something like that. I think they´d look even better ingame, in the video preview they looked less bright and more real, so i have no worries at all

Keep up the good work!

[Banzai!]

Ingame screenshots! Ingame screenshots!

[Gazius]

Looks great - I can't wait to play with it, and thanks for releasing another Stele. It may delay the final release, but we've already waited years for it, a few more days won't kill us but a lack of info certainly hurts.

[-Praetor-]

it may delay the final release

Nah, don't worry.

On the contrary, it motivates us to keep working and gives eye candy to attract skinners or modellers

[Megas Methuselah]

God Almighty, this preview is awesome. Get to work, EB Team!

[soibean]

gorgeous units... I love the diversity of the units' appearances, thank you for the update

[Cyrus]

Yeah great preview guys!
get to work Eb team!
JK

[eddy_purpus]

This has to be the best Skins ever made in a TW Game and any other video game...
For realz
Theyre Fd-Au GORGEOUS :D

[Megas Methuselah]

Yeah, those hoplites and thureophoroi really turn me on.

[KLAssurbanipal]

Very nice models!

[SwissBarbar]

Looking forward to seeing the March-Preview I wonder how the Roman Legionnaires look, and the African and Indian elephants.

[bobbin]

I wonder how the Roman Legionnaires look, and the African and Indian elephants.

You get a quick glimpse of some elephants at the end of the animation video in stele 7.

edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZC8sf1qWU

[Shadowwalker]

This is as always a very promising piece of information. Really like the style of your previews. And the content is even better. The overall quality of the features you revealed is unbelievably high.

Really looking forward to EB II.
Take all the time you need. We will wait (un-)patiently.

[Perturabo]

Now that work is waaay beyond being impressive!

..sorta come to expect that of the EB team though

I must say that fighting EB with banners etc off gives a totally new and far improved experience. I can see EBII with the varied models taking that one step further. The banner bearers will be a must though.

I don't know how long it will take but its going to be worth the wait and then some!

Keep it up guys.

[Cartaphilus]

Then it is confirmed, there will be another Hellenic or Hellenic influenced faction in EB2 besides Pergamon!

I bet for the crimean greek cities.


PD: Awesome job. I can't wait till the next preview.

[SwissBarbar]

You get a quick glimpse of some elephants at the end of the animation video in stele 7.

edit: here it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZC8sf1qWU

Cool ^^ Thx

[Reno Melitensis]

There are no words to describe your work, keep up the good work.

Cheers.

[Decimus]

Awesome keep em coming

[geala]

It's really fantastic what you made of the models. I will patiently wait for the best TW mod ever.

But, I think you got already bored of all the praises.
So let me make a critical remark, or better, a critical question: I still think that a thoureophoros usually had no body armor. A thoureophoros with armor was then a thorakitai imho. Or not? For games sake it's surely ok to give armor to more units than in reality. And a thoureophoros is not one of the cheap and simple units in the game. But: are there really sources from which we can distinct armored thoureophoroi and thorakitai (which you depict as more heavily armored with mail instead of linen)?

[Labrat]

It'll be hard to find the thread again, but there is an old post explaining why thureophoroi are depicted as heavy infantry. IIRC it was because at least one chronicler mentioned thureophoroi being singled out with "other heavy infantry". Off course, it should be kept in mind that "unit types" are not as well-defined in history as in EB: thureophoroi may have meant different things depending on time and place. The team has also decided to go with the "heaviest" possible interpretation of each unit.

[MeinPanzer]

It'll be hard to find the thread again, but there is an old post explaining why thureophoroi are depicted as heavy infantry. IIRC it was because at least one chronicler mentioned thureophoroi being singled out with "other heavy infantry". Off course, it should be kept in mind that "unit types" are not as well-defined in history as in EB: thureophoroi may have meant different things depending on time and place. The team has also decided to go with the "heaviest" possible interpretation of each unit.

I'd be curious to hear which source groups thureophoroi with heavy infantry, because one of the only sources that I know in which a specific categorical mention of thureophoroi is made is Polybius' account of the crossing of the Elburz range, in which he classes both thureophoroi and thorakitai in with the light infantrymen.

[Lovejoy]

Great preview. Just downloaded M2TW demo to see if my computer could handle it, it did! So now I'm really looking forward to EB2.

[Ibrahim]

I'd be curious to hear which source groups thureophoroi with heavy infantry, because one of the only sources that I know in which a specific categorical mention of thureophoroi is made is Polybius' account of the crossing of the Elburz range, in which he classes both thureophoroi and thorakitai in with the light infantrymen.

didn't you mention, IIRC, in a thread a long time ago that all/almost all thureophoroi were without body armor?

well, look on the bright side: the units are still WIP, so if you can bring all your evidence together in a focused post, maybe they will see about it.

[keravnos]

I'd be curious to hear which source groups thureophoroi with heavy infantry, because one of the only sources that I know in which a specific categorical mention of thureophoroi is made is Polybius' account of the crossing of the Elburz range, in which he classes both thureophoroi and thorakitai in with the light infantrymen.

Mp, I have profound respect for your views and thank you for your continuing presence. Thanks for putting this forth, as I know there are others there who share the same views, on what our sources are.

First and foremost, literary sources, good as they may be for getting a picture of the people at that time can't be considered 100% accurate, as writers of that time would call things with one name, whereas they would be called something different by another. This must not be the case with Polybios, as he was Hipparchos of the Achaike Sympoliteia (Achaian League) from 170-169 BCE.

Having said that, the tactical realities of the day were such that sometimes heavy infantry would be mingled with light infantry, being called light altogether or what have you or mixed with cavalry to achieve victory as Julius Caesar himself did in Greece against Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pharsalus
It would depend on the commander on the ground and how he would use his troops at hand to go against military axioms and win (as the opposing general might be trapped by the "do's" and "dont's") of military doctrine, leaving the hapless historian in a jumbled mess, trying to find who was who, doing what on the battlefield.

This is further complicated when one takes into account that when a "barbarian" faction would assault, it would sometimes incorporate in its host heavy infantry, lighter infantry, gaesetae (naked men with just a thureos), spearmen and swordsmen, all of them combined. How do you call them? I guess one would have to pick by either percentage of each composing element, or their role in the battlefield. This would have been a challenge to the historian back then, that is for sure.

Then, something unimaginably simple comes along... Archaeological finds.
When you have thureos (meaning literally door in ancient greek) carrying troops who are clad in muscle cuirass like the following...

and

it is difficult to classify them (found in present day Anatolia IIRC) as NOT heavy. The fact that they carry the thureos and are armored (thorax in greek) would deffinitely mean that they are thorakitai. There is no doubt in my mind that those are bronze muscle thorakes.

There is also an indirect quote for them. When Philopoemen reformed the Achaian League's army, he had his troops drop his thureos in favor of a small aspis and pike, "in the makedonian manner" in order to beat the Spartans (along with Antigonos Doson's troops at Sellassia). This means that prior to that they mostly used thureoi (plural of thureos) as shields. They would be the thorakitai and thureophoroi of EB.