Controversial Suggestion for a Mini-Mod

[artaxerxes]

i think that's a rather interesting suggestion. i'm impressed you laid out various conditions, etc, and it seems like a nearly workable situation....however, i know next to nothing of modding, and wait upon more experienced opinions to suggest if it's possible, or playable at all. certainly i'd agree that if there were some way of indicating that the gap between sicily and carthage was more important than carthage towards pretty much any other port...that would be good!

I'm actually kinda scared of myself, seeing how bloody long that post got But I thought the actual idea sounded so far out ('walking on water from africa to sicily'), that I had to get some arguments up there, so people would know why I'm suggesting this

[zooeyglass]

I'm actually kinda scared of myself, seeing how bloody long that post got But I thought the actual idea sounded so far out ('walking on water from africa to sicily'), that I had to get some arguments up there, so people would know why I'm suggesting this

if anything i'd suggest that your thread title, esp with "controversial" in it, might put people off, and lead them to think it's another LS or flaming pigs kinda question, or some such....in fact, your suggestion was a good one, you explained yourself, and it's just up to people who know how to mod to explain whether it's possible, within the mechanics of the game....what's controversial about that?

....oh wait, you want to build a bridge from africa to sicily? are you INSANE??....hehe

[anubis88]

Well i agree with your basic concept, i just don't believe that this would be possible... I mean it might be possible, but there could be many side effects

[zooeyglass]

Well i agree with your basic concept, i just don't believe that this would be possible... I mean it might be possible, but there could be many side effects

...like elephants rampaging in italia....

[soup_alex]

Anything that could be done to advance the competetiveness and strategic flexibility of the AI (without too much bias) sounds delicious to me.

Oh, and artaxerxes—the AI doesn't need to consider steps 1-2 in a 1st Punic War scenario if Rome has already been pushed back halfway up Italy

[Shadowwalker]

@artaxerxes:

Interesting post.
I would suggest you try out Ferromancers "EB for BI" mod, as it (beside a lot of other things) highly improves the chance of naval invasions.
I install it since EB 1.1 (or even 1.0 ... not sure about that...) and played some campaigns as Romans and Qart'Hadast.
I can tell that at least Sicily, Sardinia and Corsica are not safe areas anymore.
And in most of my campaigns the AI also managed to invade Italy or North Africa with rather nice armies.

I highly recommend that you try it out.

[satalexton]

funny, i'm using Alex.exe and during my last 2 campaigns (as Pontos then now as Baktra) the Carthies are happily shipping stack after stack of elite pikemen and african infantry to eat some romans. Especially on my current one, the Aedui are giving them Romaioi a hard time, the Epirote's pushing up Italy from the east, Carthage landed 3 stacks to work their way up Rhegion...what surprised me the most is that the Makedonian AI (oh joy) are actually sending stacks into Italy through Illyria AND the ships the built from Ambrakia....it seems I won't be getting the Cat-tank bodyguard anytime soon xD

[Ferromancer]

Try playing with BI (link in my sig) or the Alex engine. Much more challenging with naval invasions.

[Mjolnir]

For those of us playing with RTW.exe this mini-mod would definitely liven things up. If someone makes this I would definitely use it.

[LordCurlyton]

While I agree that BI increases playability immensely, the naval invasions of the AI are rather predictable and usually anticlimactic. For example, if the Rome/Carthage wars break out, this is almost 100% the direction it follows:
1) Rome is the aggressor, usually attacking Alalia (the closest Carthie island to Rome). they take it inevitable since no walls = munching time
2) Rome usually takes Sardinia after that. Things are looking good.
3) By this time, Carthage usually has united Sicily, at which point peace is now impossible due to a usually shared border at Messana/Rhegion. Before that, expect MANY stops/restarts due to some bunghole of a diplomat getting mad xp getting continuous ceasefires.
4a) If Rome has waited long enough, it is developed to the point where it can push the Carthies off Sicily. Naval warfare intensifies between the two.
4b) If Rome HASN'T waited long enough (usually means attacking before 10 yrs have passed), then a stalemate develops for a while. Naval warfare intensifies between the two.
5a) After pushing Carthage off Sicily, Rome generally targets the Balaeric Isles. Rome may have gotten naval superiority but the AI is prone to spamming Oneireia until they finally build up naval ports whereas Carthage AI has a tendency to spam Punic Quinquiremes. If you see Quads or better in Roman fleets, they likely have superiority or at least equality.
5b) Carthage achieves naval superiority. Possibly you may see Quads in Roman fleets but by this point they can't compete against the many Punic Quins and Quads. At this point Sardinia is usually retaken by Carthage.
6a) Rome takes the Balaeres. A peace may break out at this point, in which case the "b" line will generally occur when war breaks out again in a couple decades. If not, then it becomes more of a cold war, with Rome focusing more on its northern neighbors and the Luso if they are even mildly successful. If Carthage remains in Iberia then Roman expansion seems slanted towards trying to reach the Carthie territories, though it won't turn down freebies in other directions if they can be had. Ironically, Roman expansion will be more successful if they do NOT hit the Marians, at which point you see spam stacks of Vigiles.
6b) Alalia is retaken by Carthage. Many Elite Pikes begin to appear and Carthage begins to invade Italy from Messana and via naval invasions at Capua. Slowly but surely Rome is worn down. Once Capua is taken Arretium is targeted with naval invasions. By the time Arretium falls the Romans are generally either reduced to a client state or pushed out of Italy entirely (and then usually reduced to client state status shortly thereafter). If they have been pushed out of Iberia a vigorous and almost always successful effort to reclaim the lost turf begins. At this point Carthage can take on virtually anyone as the Elite Pikes can win almost any battle in auto-calc. Excursions into Egypt are possible. The Reforms hit, no one notices.
7a) If all the barbarian threats are weak/fractious enough, Rome can slowly conquer Iberia and Gaul. Usually, however, either the Aedui/Arveni or Sweboz force them to commit too much and when the Luso strike (usually after uniting Spain) it is the straw that breaks the camel's back (10+ Ambakaro elites per stack doesn't hurt either). I have seen the Luso take Rome before. If, by this point the Carthies have signed a peace, they usually start some Sand Wars. If not, they typically start to reclaim territory after Rome crumbles. Generally, after 100+ years, Rome is being killed, regardless of how successful they were before. Too many enemies, too many elites. Eastward expansion seems rare for Rome.
7b) 100+ years in, Carthies have generally reunited Iberia as long as they got the initial foothold back at some point. Depending on how yellow Death the Ptolies became, they may also own parts of Egypt. The Sand Wars will tend to be Carthage's only true challenge at this point.

So if this mini-mod is done, you may want to put the Sicily-Carthage land bridge, Straits of Gibraltar land bridge, and English Channel land bridge. This way all AIs have incentive to keep being aggressive.