Mass Effect 2 teaser

[TinCow]

I remember a decline before the console shift because that's why I ended up picking up an xbox and KOTOR. I was that starved for RPGs I couldn't resist a cheap supermarket deal, and the PC release of the game was set months away. Back then I was cursing the xbox for stealing PC games in general, and particularly for stealing my RPG. When it comes to looking back across the RPGs I've played, there's a massive empty gap between Throne of Baal and KOTOR. Other than Morrowind the only game I can really think of which occupies it is the PC port of a (pretty good) PS2 launch era RPG named Summoner, made by Volition. The awful SP reports and a bad demo put me off NWN until the final expansion appeared. The gap between Baal and KOTOR's European release is nearly 3 years. After KOTOR games like Vampire: Bloodlines start appearing in my memory.

My memory is foggy too. My short chronological list of games from that previous post was based on wikipedia info. I remembered all those games, but had no idea when they were released and had to look over what came out in the 1990s and early 2000s to even make my reply. One of the trends that is noticeable when looking at the 2000s list is that 2000 to 2002 also a massive increase in 'Action RPGs.' In 2000 we get both Diablo 2 and Icewind Dale, as well as System Shock 2 which still can't be properly categorized as either FPS or RPG. 2001 has the Diablo 2 expansion pack, Fallout Tactics, and the Icewind Dale expansion pack 2002 has Divine Divinity, Icewind Dale 2, and Dungeon Siege. That's a pretty big explosion in the Action RPG market, which shows some noticeable distraction from pure RPG development by some of the biggest names in RPG gaming: Black Isle and Interplay. It's certainly significant that Diablo 2 is considered by the world at large to be a RPG, when it's nothing of the sort.

Looking at that now, perhaps I was wrong to blame it all on consoles. Perhaps it was just a 'perfect storm' of a large number of factors hitting the RPG industry at exactly the same time, resulting in a major shift away from the classic gaming systems.

We're agreeing in a roundabout way about the adoption of full voice acting; someone had done it and then everyone else had to in order to keep up with the latest gloss. It was another of those irksome candy decisions which periodically inflict themselves on the industry. My point is that the changeover didn't come about because the console players didn't want to read; they had been reading similar amounts of text to PC gamers for years, and they'd been rating those games highly and buying them in high numbers. I believe things would have taken the same course without RPGs moving to consoles; once the bulk of dialogue is voiced any unvoiced dialogue is criticised, and voicework is expense so the number of lines must go down.

Possibly, though I do have a strong feeling that there was a shift in console gaming itself between the 5th and 6th generations. I have no facts or info of any kind to back up these statements, but I personally feel like the 5th generation of consoles was still part of PC gaming. When the N64 and PS1 were released, I think that most people who owned consoles also did a lot of PC gaming. Back then, I would have called the two industries as complimentary, not competitive. As the PS1 got older, its catalog of games started attracting a more adult audience than it had previously, and I feel like the PS1 in particular really broke open the console market to sections of the population who had never been gamers before. The flood gates then opened with the 6th generation, mainly with the PS2 and XBox, which started popping up in households all over the world that had never been interested in gaming before.

So, I feel like the console population itself shifted at that same time, towards a broader audience and away from the old core of gamers who were very similar to, if not the same group as, PC gamers. Again, I have nothing to back that up though, it's just my own ruminations on the matter.

GTA didn't have much freedom IMO. Yup, another statement which makes me want to use that creeping smiley to imply me sidling away epecting to have a boot thrown at me. GTA4 and series spin-off Bully gave you a choice between doing plot mission X to advance the pre-set story, or ignoring it to do a range of pre-set and pre-planned side missions. Eventually you needed to do some plot missions in order to unlock more side quests. Or you can ignore both types of missions and run around doing random things which don't have much impact.

To be clear, I don't consider the GTA series to be RPGs. I was simply making an observation on the 'exploration of the world' aspect of the series in comparison to classic RPG gaming. GTA is basically a third-person shooter with really large levels, some kind of middle step between the action RPG and the FPS. It's got a lot in common with games like STALKER and FarCry 2, actually. That's another discussion though...

Maybe the arena should get a 'state of RPGs' thread?

I've very much enjoyed this discussion, and I'd be willing to give it a go. I'm sure I can get Whacker to contribute a few rants on the matter as well. I actually feel like there's a lot of room for a directed discussions on several aspects of gaming: RPGs, FPS, Strategy, Consoles, etc. We should probably do one at a time, but it might be fun to do a planned series of threads which are part narrative, part debate, on general gaming trends and issues.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Whatever happens, I want to have Ashley, Garrus, and possibly Wrex back in my squads.