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Thread: Dragoon use
I read the German review and it mentioned that the AI doesn't use dragoons but it doesn't matter because line infantry is better.
In the demo, the unit of dragoons you have actually has slightly better stats than the units of hussars (I'm pretty sure, though it's minor like +1 hand to hand). I once used them dismounted but they got shot up (I didn't use them well, que sera sera). I only once used them as cav, and they did well, though they were facing breaking units anyway.
Now, the interesting attribute - "special ability" or whatever - is the thing about the campaign map, where it's difficult to locate them. If someone could CP the text of that, I'd be grateful, but it sounds very interesting.
Anyway, does anyone have any idea what dragoons use is in a mixed army (one with infantry, cav, and arty)? I can see the use in an all-dragoon army, moving quickly and stealthily on the campaign map and setting up ambushes. But they are too small to fight off line infantry (and may even have shorter range) and they're more expensive than cavalry.
In the demo, the unit of dragoons you have actually has slightly better stats than the units of hussars (I'm pretty sure, though it's minor like +1 hand to hand). I once used them dismounted but they got shot up (I didn't use them well, que sera sera). I only once used them as cav, and they did well, though they were facing breaking units anyway.
Now, the interesting attribute - "special ability" or whatever - is the thing about the campaign map, where it's difficult to locate them. If someone could CP the text of that, I'd be grateful, but it sounds very interesting.
Anyway, does anyone have any idea what dragoons use is in a mixed army (one with infantry, cav, and arty)? I can see the use in an all-dragoon army, moving quickly and stealthily on the campaign map and setting up ambushes. But they are too small to fight off line infantry (and may even have shorter range) and they're more expensive than cavalry.
This is just speculation, but I suppose you could send them quickly to fortifications and cover, dismount, and then have them defend points on the map.
I don't know how useful this would be in your average battle, or whether its ever worth using them as infantry. I suppose in a siege, you'd generally want them on foot, too.
I don't know how useful this would be in your average battle, or whether its ever worth using them as infantry. I suppose in a siege, you'd generally want them on foot, too.
DisruptorX is right. Dragoons will probably be used to quickly take and hold key areas. We don't see this in the demo because no key areas need to be held and we get very few of them.
I can imagine using them to set up suprise ambushes or to circle round an enemy and cut off his escape routes. As well as taking strategic buildings or hills and other battlefield landmarks. They can also be used like cavalry archers, which is handy.
I think the reviewers just weren't imaginative enough when they said there is no reason to use them.
A units usefulness isn't just about how high its stats are.
I can imagine using them to set up suprise ambushes or to circle round an enemy and cut off his escape routes. As well as taking strategic buildings or hills and other battlefield landmarks. They can also be used like cavalry archers, which is handy.
I think the reviewers just weren't imaginative enough when they said there is no reason to use them.
A units usefulness isn't just about how high its stats are.Too bad they can't shoot from horseback. I guess that would make them OP'd. 
Originally Posted by Megas Methuselah:
Too bad they can't shoot from horseback. I guess that would make them OP'd.
They can I think. I'm sure I recall them doing that...Too bad they can't shoot from horseback. I guess that would make them OP'd.
They can shoot from horse back but they have to be standing still.
Originally Posted by :
Now, the interesting attribute - "special ability" or whatever - is the thing about the campaign map, where it's difficult to locate them. If someone could CP the text of that, I'd be grateful, but it sounds very interesting.
Actually it was the Hussars that had the "Paths less trodden" ability.Now, the interesting attribute - "special ability" or whatever - is the thing about the campaign map, where it's difficult to locate them. If someone could CP the text of that, I'd be grateful, but it sounds very interesting.
The Dragoons had an ability that reduced the chances of a revolt.
EDIT:
This is what it says on the game:
Hussars- Paths Seldom trod: These men use every fold of the land to conceal the route of thier march, and are harder to spot of the campaign map.
Dragoons- Garrison policing bonus: The draconian techniques employed by these men when garrison duty are highly effective at maintaining public order.
I used the dragoons in the demo battle for hit-and-run attacks on the cannons without getting tangled up in melee. They were pretty effective at that and generally managed to avoid getting mauled too badly by the cannons.
Originally Posted by Sheogorath:
I used the dragoons in the demo battle for hit-and-run attacks on the cannons without getting tangled up in melee. They were pretty effective at that and generally managed to avoid getting mauled too badly by the cannons.
I used them for the same, while using Hessian Line as a distraction. It worked great and I knocked out all of the cannon without losing a man. I used the dragoons in the demo battle for hit-and-run attacks on the cannons without getting tangled up in melee. They were pretty effective at that and generally managed to avoid getting mauled too badly by the cannons.
Then they all died when I charged them into stakes while I wasn't paying attention
.I wiped out a whole american cannon crew in one volley fom the dragoons..perhaps artillery hunters? Or target isolated units.
Originally Posted by Sir Beane:
I used them for the same, while using Hessian Line as a distraction. It worked great and I knocked out all of the cannon without losing a man.
Then they all died when I charged them into stakes while I wasn't paying attention.
Those stakes are bastards.I used them for the same, while using Hessian Line as a distraction. It worked great and I knocked out all of the cannon without losing a man.
Then they all died when I charged them into stakes while I wasn't paying attention
.I charged my general right into them because I didn't see them.
You guys were right, dragoons can shoot from horseback (in a stationary position). I love dragoons!!!
Yeah, I used the dragoons in this battle to flank and then take the town hall while the enemy wasn't looking. They were almost anihialated in there, but they did tie up a few enemy units.
In regards to stakes, i just assumed my units would go through the gap instead of impaling themselves, especially as there were no enemy units nearby. Next thing I know, the 'heroic death' message comes up, and i only have 5 general's cavalry left *sniffle*
In regards to stakes, i just assumed my units would go through the gap instead of impaling themselves, especially as there were no enemy units nearby. Next thing I know, the 'heroic death' message comes up, and i only have 5 general's cavalry left *sniffle*
This almost reminds me of battlefield assassins, the hungarian units from MTW2 or even the Arcani from RTW.
The AI just never seems all that great at stealthy units. Either pulling them out of hiding to soon or just ignoring how they are intended to be using.
I think alot of clever players will get use out of the dragoons though, as this thread shows :)
The AI just never seems all that great at stealthy units. Either pulling them out of hiding to soon or just ignoring how they are intended to be using.
I think alot of clever players will get use out of the dragoons though, as this thread shows :)
I think an obvious main battle use for them would be to rapidly flank engaged line infantry. A line unit getting engaged from the rear while fighting to their front has to be demoralizing. Then the Dragoons mount up and chase routers.
SG
SG
In the demo I tried to use dragoons to quickly shoot out the enemy artillery and pull out fast. Didn't work since I had to go ALL the way around the enemy army, but eventually when I got there 1 volley took out every single horse and a few artillery crewmen. Future volleys were long, slow, and didn't really work due to the shot that they got shot 1 time by the cannon and routed
Dragoons should be thought of, first and foremost as cavalry, it is how they have been used to most effect throughout history, it is vital the young budding general keep this foremost in mind when using them. Allowing yourself to think of them as infantry will almsot certainly lead to their destruction at the volleys of regular line infantry.
It would be nice if they had the same numbers as normal infantry units. It would certainly make them much better at holding key areas while reinforcements arrived. At the moment they risk being overwhelmed by sheer numbers.
I've only played the landbattle demo twice so far, but what struck me about the dragoons was their flexibility.
You can get to any point on the map fast, then decide what you need to do there. Cavalry charge, stand-and-shoot from horseback, dismount and occupy a building/forest, ...
Whatever you need done can be done, not as efficiently as a single purpose unit of course, but still.
I'd consider say 3 units of dragoons a very useful strategic reserve in any battle. I expect them to be a fixture in my armies.
You can get to any point on the map fast, then decide what you need to do there. Cavalry charge, stand-and-shoot from horseback, dismount and occupy a building/forest, ...
Whatever you need done can be done, not as efficiently as a single purpose unit of course, but still.
I'd consider say 3 units of dragoons a very useful strategic reserve in any battle. I expect them to be a fixture in my armies.
I havent played the demo yet, but surely the dragoons should be very useful in a dual role, infantry with high tactical movement when you need that, and medium cavalry when the situation calls for that.
I think the german reviewers forgot the value of high movement combined with decent firepower, if you can quickly place your dragoons as infantry at key points where foot soldiers wouldnt reach it fast enough, hold them back as atactical reserve that can fill holes in our main line quickly, or send them around a flank and then start firing volleys into the enemy rear, that more than makes up for being a little weaker stat-wise than either regular inf or cav.
I think the german reviewers forgot the value of high movement combined with decent firepower, if you can quickly place your dragoons as infantry at key points where foot soldiers wouldnt reach it fast enough, hold them back as atactical reserve that can fill holes in our main line quickly, or send them around a flank and then start firing volleys into the enemy rear, that more than makes up for being a little weaker stat-wise than either regular inf or cav.
Originally Posted by Daevyll:
I've only played the landbattle demo twice so far, but what struck me about the dragoons was their flexibility.
You can get to any point on the map fast, then decide what you need to do there. Cavalry charge, stand-and-shoot from horseback, dismount and occupy a building/forest, ...
Whatever you need done can be done, not as efficiently as a single purpose unit of course, but still.
I'd consider say 3 units of dragoons a very useful strategic reserve in any battle. I expect them to be a fixture in my armies.
Correct. They can also scout ahead to reveal any hidden units, e.g. American long rifles. Then they can either (a) attack via melee or ranged or (b) withdraw without taking too much damage.I've only played the landbattle demo twice so far, but what struck me about the dragoons was their flexibility.
You can get to any point on the map fast, then decide what you need to do there. Cavalry charge, stand-and-shoot from horseback, dismount and occupy a building/forest, ...
Whatever you need done can be done, not as efficiently as a single purpose unit of course, but still.
I'd consider say 3 units of dragoons a very useful strategic reserve in any battle. I expect them to be a fixture in my armies.
Overall, they are great units. Now it's just a question of cost and availability...
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