citizens of EU member states - what do you think of galileo GPS competitor?

**LittleGrizzly** · 02-24-2009, 22:33

and we are even more stupid as to be signing up to europes foriegn policy via further EU integration under the delusion that it gives us more clout in the world!

Well if we had a common policy we would... even if every other country had a pitiful army thats quite a few pitiful armies as well as our army... as with things such as sanctions and the like...

whines about being americas

I think its more to do with joining things like Iraq rather than being able to invade some other country by ourselves...

**Furunculus** · 02-24-2009, 23:18

but we don't.

how many times of recent has britain involved itself in events that appear to be opposed by our continetal 'partners'?
you don't just opt to have a common foreign policy, you need to agree what those objectives are.

case in point; iraq, which i supported and am thus glad could not be vetoed by javier solano.

**LittleGrizzly** · 02-24-2009, 23:23

but we don't.

Its fairly obvious that if we don't have a common policy that we don't have more clout, but your point i originally answered was about further eu integration giving us more clout, i would assume further eu integration would include common policy

how many times of recent has britain involved itself in events that appear to be opposed by our continetal 'partners'?
you don't just opt to have a common foreign policy, you need to agree what those objectives are.

case in point; iraq, which i supported and am thus glad could not be vetoed by javier solano.

I agree, which is why we need to move to a common policy so europe can keep us out of things like the iraq war...

**Furunculus** · 02-25-2009, 00:08

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

Its fairly obvious that if we don't have a common policy that we don't have more clout, but your point i originally answered was about further eu integration giving us more clout, i would assume further eu integration would include common policy

I agree, which is why we need to move to a common policy so europe can keep us out of things like the iraq war...

we don't have more clout if we don't agree with the consensus opinion on the continent.

that is a very sad lack of confidence in your nation that you would rather have a bunch of unelected quangocrats make your countries decisions for you.

**LittleGrizzly** · 02-25-2009, 00:15

we don't have more clout if we don't agree with the consensus opinion on the continent.

With the Iraq war we slightly favoured continent's opinion to USA's, but our elected officials took us in... obviously we could disagree on things, but what if newcastle was deadly against the iraq war... should it break off and be able to have its own say... or should it stay part of a larger collective for mutual benefit and more clout but having to live with differences of opinion...

that is a very sad lack of confidence in your nation

Its the politicians i have the lack of confidence in... public just about agreed with me on this one...

bunch of unelected quangocrats

I don't now who you refer too but most are elected are at least chosen by elected officials...

make your countries decisions for you.

Its not quite like that, It is us making our desicions, kinda of like how the british goverment tells every part of britian what to do but we contribute by choosing the goverment that tells us what to do, same principle applies...

**Furunculus** · 02-25-2009, 00:20

Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly

we don't have more clout if we don't agree with the consensus opinion on the continent.

With the Iraq war we slightly favoured continent's opinion to USA's, but our elected officials took us in... obviously we could disagree on things, but what if newcastle was deadly against the iraq war... should it break off and be able to have its own say... or should it stay part of a larger collective for mutual benefit and more clout but having to live with differences of opinion...

bunch of unelected quangocrats

I don't now who you refer too but most are elected are at least chosen by elected officials...

i go with the Gov't on this one, not in that i agree, but that i accept we elect a gov't to make tough decisions for us. do you want apple pie? *cries of yes* do you want dead soldiers? *cries of no*

do you want a consensus of euro nations deciding your foreign policy for you?

**LittleGrizzly** · 02-25-2009, 00:24

but that i accept we elect a gov't to make tough decisions for us.

do you want a consensus of euro nations deciding your foreign policy for you?

And nothing would be different with an EU goverment, majority (basically) rules and if your opinion is different try and change it... but don't try to claim that somehow we would be ruled from abroad anymore than newcastle is ruled from london... if we were going to be following EU policy without any representation you would have a point..

i seem to remember people said there could never be another world war after the first................

Your much older than i thought

The situation in Europe was vastly different to the situation now, no country within the eu would attack, they are joining together if anything, so it would have to be a more distant power... USA have capability but i really don't ever see that happening... or at least in my lifetime... Russia ? China ? Firstly theres not really much good motive for any big power to attempt to take over britian, it would certainly annoy the rest of the eu for one, there are much easier less well connected country's to go for.

BTW I wasn't advocating no military spending, i was arguing that calling it a first duty given our geo political situation is wrong imo

I think the budget could use a little trim though... of course we have to see out of military commitments first..

**Husar** · 02-25-2009, 18:35

Originally Posted by Furunculus

do you want a consensus of euro nations deciding your foreign policy for you?

A nation is just a subdivision of a continent state similar to how in the middle ages(around 1800-2100) certain regions or countries were subdisvisions of nation states.
So basically what you elected leaders in the US decide is your policy and you are the one to decide it with your vote just like in the old nation states.
Don't pretend to have anything like referendums and also note that your politicians who you voted into office are among the ones pushing this, so if politicians of nation states always do what you want and is in your best interest then surely the EU is what you want.
If you're now going to say you didn't vote for the current government and do not agree with what they do then how is that going to be any better or worse in the EU?

To me it's all the same mess, just on a different level.