Square formation?

[Megas Methuselah]

The soldiers look so cute in a square formation.

[ratbarf]

^ True dat, but historically speaking, a square was all but impenatreble to cavalry as long as the infantry held their nerve and didn't allow any openings. As long as the formation is good, the cav shouldn't be allowed in, much like a RTW Phalanx formation. (and in RTW if you had enough cav, you could break through even massed spartan phalanxes...)

[peacemaker]

Well, I'm just taking a shot here, but I think in real life squares were made up of more than 80-ish men. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust the whole square to a 2-man deep perimeter. And if there's only two men, think of this:You have only one man behind you and need to stop a massive beast and rider charging at you at full speed, as well as many of his buddies. Do you really think that 2 men will be able to withstand a full horse and its rider? As for the spartans and the phalanx, that doesn't happen too much although keep in mind that the men hold their spears forward and heavy cavalry could possibly leap over them. Or with armored horses, i.e. cataphracts, they could take a spear with the armor but there is still the weight of an armored horse and its rider in full armor to land in the enemy formation, and don't tell me that they will magically be able to get that horse to stay in the air, and not crash down on them.

[antisocialmunky]

Well it depended. You usually used 500-100 men at 2-4 ranks deep. Cavalry isn't that heavy during this time period. infantry squares are really more deterents. However, once you manage to kill enough cavalry, the ground becomes so cluttered that the cavalry can't attack your square anymore. I think that's what happened at Waterloo with 4 rank deep squares.

[A Very Super Market]

Well, they don't model dead bodies do they?

[ratbarf]

Well, I'm just taking a shot here, but I think in real life squares were made up of more than 80-ish men. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust the whole square to a 2-man deep perimeter. And if there's only two men, think of this:You have only one man behind you and need to stop a massive beast and rider charging at you at full speed, as well as many of his buddies. Do you really think that 2 men will be able to withstand a full horse and its rider? As for the spartans and the phalanx, that doesn't happen too much although keep in mind that the men hold their spears forward and heavy cavalry could possibly leap over them. Or with armored horses, i.e. cataphracts, they could take a spear with the armor but there is still the weight of an armored horse and its rider in full armor to land in the enemy formation, and don't tell me that they will magically be able to get that horse to stay in the air, and not crash down on them.

Actually, a horse will not charge a condensed mass of men. so as long as there arn't any gaps they actually cant breakthrough. Thats why lancers and pistoliers were created. Because the lances reach farther than the bayonets and they don't have to charge into the men. The simply spear one, ride away and repeat until the formation is shattered enough that the horses will ride through. Same for the pistoliers. The trick with an infantry square was to hold the volley until the utter last moment, once they were sure the charge was committed. Generally under ten feet from the square. The first rank would go down and the rear ranks would trip over them making them easy meat for the squares second or third line to shoot. In a battle in Spain (the name alludes me at the moment) a regiment in square formation marched almost a mile switching from column to square in an effort to recover another regiment that had been caught out in the open. After repeated attempts by the cavalry to charge the square, the regiments eventually rejoined the main force making the cavalry disengage. Its all aobut fire control, but I doubt you could pull this off in the game sadly enough.

[antisocialmunky]

You probably could using the fire at will command but too much micro.

@AVSM - Well, I wasn't implying that ETW modeled it perfectly, simply answering a question. However, since these infantry squares are so small, what's stopping someone from planting spikes around it to use as obstacles?

Square + Sharpened Stakes seem like a good combo.

[ratbarf]

Light infantry don't have the square ability in the demo at least.

[Sir Beane]

Square formation makes an excellent 'last stand' formation. Your men can go down fighting back to back in a blaze of glory . It will work even better when combined with cover or a town square for that extra movie style zest.

[antisocialmunky]

Light infantry don't have the square ability in the demo at least.

What's stopping you from laying stakes with light infantry and then putting a infantry square in the stakes?

[Trapped in Samsara]

[QUOTE=peacemaker;2147866]Well, I'm just taking a shot here, but I think in real life squares were made up of more than 80-ish men. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't trust the whole square to a 2-man deep perimeter. And if there's only two men, think of this:You have only one man behind you and need to stop a massive beast and rider charging at you at full speed, as well as many of his buddies.

The way squares work is that the horse does NOT charge home if the square 'holds its nerve'. The horse never actually impacts the infantry. It perceives the men as a solid object and horses have horse sense. They will not charge into a solid infantry formation anymore than they would gallop into a brick wall.

Also, at Quatre Bras, preliminary to Waterloo for the non-Napoleonic War historians out there, the British fought off French Cuirassieurs in four deep LINE.

If I recall correctly, there are only three verified accounts of cavalry breaking a well formed square throughout the whole Napoleonic War period. One of those resulted from a horse being shot, falling into the infantry, thus creating a gap, into which other cavalry leapt.

Regards
Victor