Putting together a Sweboz army?

[Zim]

Hello,
I've just recently come back to EB And started a Sweboz campaign the other day. I think it's about in the 230s B.C. or so. I have 3 mines and around 10 or so settlements, and could probably pay for at least two full stacks if I suspended construction, maybe more if I filled them with cheaper units.

As soon as I bordered the Aedui they attacked (to be expected). I was surprised to find they managed to get their first reform, which has opened up a number of units that seem to be better than mine (Solduros being the toughest. I can only be thankful I haven't run into Gaesaetae. *shudder*). I can still beat them in battle, although with horrible losses. I'm not trying to destroy them, since doing so would open up a long, hard to defend border with my "allies" the Romans (who will probably border me when they finish off the Arverni anyway, and then knowing the RTW AI, they will attack me, end their war with the Aedui, then ally the Aedui ). I have raided deep enough into their territory to push them away for a few turns at least.

I"m having trouble putting together an army that's more survivable against the Celtic units (or soon to be enemies Romans). Up until now fairly low end armies with lots of skirmishers, levy spearmen, a few clubmen, and some regional mercs have served me well enough.

I have access to most of the pre-reform Sweboz troops, at least in my capital (next MIC in my capital will be able to recruit them when I get to 192). I also have access to Belgae Spearmen and Celtic slingers as regionals, and a fair number of Baltic regional units in my far eastern province. Mercs are plentiful but expensive.

Could I build an army that could beat my neighbor's units without significant losses? Or should I resign myself to heavy losses and go for cheaper units I can retrain more easily, as I've done until now?

Also, I remember in the older builds of EB there were some single province german regionals (the Scandinavian guys, Cheruscii spearmen). I haven't gotten any such units yet, despite slowly upgrading MICs in my outlying territories. Were they removed to save space for other units?

Thank you for any help.

[ziegenpeter]

Well I'm a huge sweboz fan and my backbone are mostly the Dugunthiz (Xattiska) and some Herobrukones (sp?) even though they are a bit far away from the real trouble. As you develop more use some sword-guys instead of the slaxonez and the speuta-guards to implement some hellenic pike-style (this unit impressed me in two ways: first I didnt know that such a fighting-style existed in the "germanic" world AND they are great in battle) and use a few of your naked silesian guys to frighte your enemies. try to hold the last ones as long as possible back, the die to quickly.

I cant give "THE" sweboz army, because it depends where you are going to fight, the sweboz have many regional-factional(i.e. sweboz units onl recruitable in one area) units and rely a lot on regional units.

so far...

btw: is there a way to automatically group (not merge) your units within a stack, so that units of the same type are beside each other?

PS: Sorry for my spelling, its late...

[Tollheit]

Are you building the right kind of MIC?
Most of these units require a 7500 mnai/9 turns factional MIC, never the regional MIC for units of Germanic tribes.

[Zim]

ziegenpeter Those are the the German spearmen and swordmen (win or lose, I'll get all those names down by the time I finish. )? I just teched up to them.

Tollheit I've been building the right kind of MICs but not up the right level. Things moved so slowly through the first decades of the game I focused on economic buildings when I was finally able to afford them. I should have been building up my MICs (outside my capital, none are past the second level).

Time to get back to the game and see if I can turn things around. If I find something that works for me I'll post it here.

Thanks for the help. I'm going to see about some of those regional units...

[ziegenpeter]

ziegenpeter Those are the the German spearmen and swordmen (win or lose, I'll get all those names down by the time I finish. )? I just teched up to them.

Yep, sorry, I meant german spearmen and swordmen.
To tell you about this less geekish: Use the Spearmen with the javelins instead of the levies and then later on add swordsmen instead of clubmen plus pikemen and some of the guys who overdid it with make-up

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Ive played enough Sweboz campaigns to know how to use these guys.
For the Reform celts i have three units for u
1.Clubmen
2.Dungundiz
3.Swordsmen
If you have armies with these as the main components you will do grea against everything BUT those Gaeastae. Those bastards you should hit with archer fire unit dead.
And what lvl of Rome r u on?

[zooeyglass]

the sweboz were one of my earliest campaigns, and i found a method that i felt really worked. it's simple, but effective:

spearmen + archers, ratio of about 2:1. the spearmen can really hold their own in most fights, especially if they are paired units. and i mean the toughie spearmen - not the levies. Dugunthiz i believe they are called. and the archers, Skutjanz, just seem to cut through most opposition in the early game.

If you need an added punch, the FMs' bodyguards can really hand it out. So spearmen+archers+FM equals killing maching. Not the most adventurous selection, but it worked very well for me.

[Tollheit]

and the archers, Skutjanz, just seem to cut through most opposition in the early game.

That's because most of the early opposition were Germanic units and therefore had less armour than a naked man. Skutjanz won't perform as well against Neitos etc.
If you must use archers, use some decent Baltic Medjinikos. They have more men, much better range and nearly twice as much ammo, better armour and better morale to boot. I'd still prefer some Iaosatae, though.

Helpful are IMHO (in ascending order of usefulness, pre reform units):

- some kind of Dugundiz, proven spearmen (can hold a line in melee, decent anti-cav unit, versatile)
- Woithiz Watha, Silengian grime fans (fear effect, good morale)
- Korodrougos, Oksywie swordsmen (high lethality, good number of men)
- Xerunoudozez, Germanic swordsmen (high lethality, at least some inkling of armour)
- Sloxonez, clubmen (ap)
- Kirwinikos, Baltic axemen (ap, above average lethality)
- Jugundiz Xathjiska, Chatti youth (ap, cheap as chips)
- Worgozez, those mercenary dudes with wolf pelts and axes (ap, above average lethality, fear effect)
- your FM's bodyguard
- Druxtiz Basterniska, Bastarnae warband (ap, excellent lethality)
- Marslugoi Lugjiskoi, Lugian swordsmen (ap, superb lethality, boosts morale of friendly units)

[Phalanx300]

I like to form a army based on the Sweboz army in the Historical Battle, just remember with the Sweboz that they will die like flies gainst missles.

[Zim]

Well, Rome attacked me after a few turns, despite our alliance. Then ended their war with the Aedui. And, of course, they proceeded to ally against me. I wish I could say it took me by surprise.

I played a defensive game while the Aedui did their version of the Mongol Shuffle from MTW2 (to the Celts" credit, they eventually came after me with some powerful stacks rather than getting stuck on permashuffle). Meanwhile I upgraded my MICs and replaced many of my levies with Dugundiz, the clubmen, and finally some regionals.

Once I became used to the fact that I'd take casualties even with better armies things went pretty well. It was very touch and go for a while with the Romans, watching my armies slowly dwindle from attrition while theirs never seemed to end. However, I managed to get a raiding party into Italy one step ahead of an elite stack of theirs, sacking the entire western coast. I was hoping that raiding party would manage to make it home, but that elite stack has them cornered in Sicily and they're pretty weak now...

Managed to take and hold Patavium long enough for it to rebel to the Aedui. As soon as I take one more Roman settlement north of the Alps they won't have a route to attack me any more and I can focus on the Celts, which I should be able to beat.

Units that proved to be staples:
-Dugundiz and their sword wielding counterparts.
-Belgae spearmen, largely for being available from a level 2 regional MIC.
-Clubmen
-Baltic regionals, especially the axemen.
-Not so much a staple but used a couple times to great effect: Those Celtic spearmen that are basically weaker Gaesaetae.
-A single unit of those fellows that wear the wolf pelts, that slowly dwindled but refused to die.

Thanks for all the help. When I get an army or two retrained I'll try to post them.

[Olaf Blackeyes]

Clubmen are useful cuz they beat the **** outta the heavily armored Roman late units.

[Os-Q]

Celto-Germanic cavalry haven't been mentioned. I'm surprised how good they've turned out to be. They're tricky to use and take a while to get (high native MIC), not so good for charging, but in my experience they are incredible for chasing routers (very important for a foot based army), and good at fighting other cavalry and skirmishers in a protracted melee.

I've easily beaten Roman family members with them, and the Celto-Germanics can take out Carthie and Gallic family members when coupled with clubmen. In the long run, you can get them before the reforms and they're cheaper than relying on mercs anyway.

I think they look cool too.

Marholeudiz Wolhiskoz



What do you think sirs?

[Lovejoy]

A few...


Mixed in with some...


Makes the perfect cheap gaul killing army. :) The Gauls are really vulnerable against flying spears. For the thougher Gaul units I but my generals at use, or some other more heavily armoured unit.

[Tollheit]

Marholeudiz Wolhiskoz

What do you think sirs?

To be honest, I have not used them yet, but I will definitely give them a try in the near future.

[Zim]

I should really be developing my recent conquests in Gaul. I haven't seen these guys yet, although I have had a chance to play with some of the locals in the alpine settlements (Teceitos are very nice).

It would be nice to be able to recruit some worthwhile cavalry.

Marholeudiz Wolhiskoz



What do you think sirs?

[Zim]

A short moment of silence...Or perhaps a longer moment of cursing, for my Sweboz campaign that died when a power surge wiped my comp clean.

And I was holding on to a couple strong defensive positions and finally just a couple decades away from the reforms, the units from which I was looking forward to matching against the Polybian Roman troops.

Ah well, I've never tried the Romans, despite (or perhaps because ) they were almost the only faction I'd play with Vanilla, BI, and the mods I'd tried before EB. Seems like time for a new game.

Thanks for the help everyone, it made a big difference in getting my Sweboz empire's act together.

[athanaric]

A short moment of silence...Or perhaps a longer moment of cursing, for my Sweboz campaign that died when a power surge wiped my comp clean.

And I was holding on to a couple strong defensive positions and finally just a couple decades away from the reforms, the units from which I was looking forward to matching against the Polybian Roman troops.

Ah well, I've never tried the Romans, despite (or perhaps because ) they were almost the only faction I'd play with Vanilla, BI, and the mods I'd tried before EB. Seems like time for a new game.

Thanks for the help everyone, it made a big difference in getting my Sweboz empire's act together.

Ouch. I feel for you. Getting the Swêboz reform units takes a very long time...

[Nachtmeister]

A short moment of silence...Or perhaps a longer moment of cursing, for my Sweboz campaign that died when a power surge wiped my comp clean.

Reiser FS for the WIN!!!

[flame]Blasted microsoft seems to be incapable of getting their OS to comprehand rfs data though...
And afaik NTFS is still not really good at journaling - if they'd at the very least make a *working* journaling FS of their own... But I suppose then it would only be available with corporate editions. MS is turning more into a tasteless joke with every new OS they spam onto the markets. [/flame]

Sorry 'bout that but I get strong feelings when reading of (theoretically) avoidable read/write related HDD corruption.

On topic, I think the dugunthiz (sp?) are a bit overrated here - they fall almost as quickly as the militia spearmen, so I am using gaizoz frije as my main line infantry (until I get the pikemen, that is) with a FM standing right behind them in case the enemy advances with single skirmish units, flanks manned with jugunthiz and slaganz in column ready to envelop enemy, skutjanz on left flank to rush behind enemy when lines are engaged (auto-fire off so enemy does not go for them).



brown=FM, red=slaganz, d.green=gaizoz frije, l.green=jugunthiz, m.green=skutjonez.

My campaign is in it's early stages though, so I suppose this army would likely fail against better-equipped Gauls - but it is sufficient for the initial offensive pushes and the low upkeep (~150 for all but the slaganz) means it is possible to build up infrastructure while on campaign without sacking your own future homeland/core territory.

[Aemilius Paulus]

That is why I have precisely seven backups of my Savegames. Nothing can stop me from fully enjoying EB!! Muahahaha!!!

[Nachtmeister]

That is why I have precisely seven backups of my Savegames. Nothing can stop me from fully enjoying EB!! Muahahaha!!!

On the same HDD? Muahahahaha...!!

[Tolg]

On the same HDD? Muahahahaha...!!

On each of my 3 EHDs. Muahahahaha...!!




Sry, I couldn't contain myself.

[geala]

Nice advise about the units in the thread, thanks. Until now I couldn't force myself to play people who wear long trousers *shudder* but perhaps sometimes in the future...