Demo units

**Sir Beane** · 03-01-2009, 11:33

Originally Posted by Miracle

Maybe the Ship of the Line upkeep costs are low because of gameplay reasons. High upkeep costs mean fewer upper-tier warships. That means fewer meaningful epic naval battles and less fun. Given that SEGA/CA intends to make and market a game for the masses and not a historical simulation for history buffs, gameplay takes precedence over realism should a design conflict arise.

Of course, if you're still incensed by the low upkeep cost, by all means install a mod or make one yourself.

The problem lies in the fact that historically ships were tremendously expensive, and you could practically cripple an enemy navy in a decisive naval battle.

If ships are that cheap the A.I can spam build an entire fleet from scratch in no time. It will make it very difficult to decisively win the race for naval power.

You can still have naval battles without the huge Ships of the Line. There are plenty of smaller ships to use. This just seems like it will result in every ship being a 1st rater. Because at that price why on earth would you build anything else?

**Miracle** · 03-01-2009, 13:41

Regarding realism of SotL upkeep costs in general:

Like I said, SEGA/CA probably thinks having historically correct SotL upkeep costs would impair gameplay. They probably want epic naval battles to appear as frequently in a grand campaign as epic land battles. They know that the gamer is eager to play around with lots of upper tier SotL- not boring sloops and sixth rates. Sure, both you and the AI will inevitably produce historically incorrect numbers of grand fleets. But for the typical ADHD-inflicted gamer that is a blessing.
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Regarding First Rates gameplay-wise:

This just seems like it will result in every ship being a 1st rater. Because at that price why on earth would you build anything else?

Well because price, firepower and hull strength aren't everything. More likely than not their slowness will be reflected on the campaign map. That means you don't want First Rates chasing pirates and merchant ships. There will probably be significant availability, technology and build time issues as well. Also, according to the demo stats, the overall effectiveness/cost of First Rates appears to be inferior to that of Second Rates over a 50 turn time period. If we use the equation,

Score = Men*Firepower*Range*Accuracy*Reloading_Skill*Hull_Strength*Speed/(Recruitment_Cost+50*Upkeep_Cost)/2.5E9

the following scores are obtained:

First Rate: 107.09
Second Rate: 109.95
Third Rate: 85.35
Fourth Rate: 43.06

I did not include the Sixth Rate because its demo stats reflected an uber-experienced ship. The number of guns is not factored in because firepower is dependent on the number of guns (about 15.6 firepower/gun). Manoeuvrability is "Low" for every 1st to 4th Rate.

Anyway, that calculation indicates that if price is an issue during those 50 turns, you'd want a mix of First and Second Rates for a grand battle fleet.

For Multiplayer, upkeep cost is N/A but the relative score is about the same; Second Rates are still the best.

**Polemists** · 03-01-2009, 13:46

Well I don't recall price but I do remeber that CA said at some point your best ships would take time to build and you could not just build them in a single turn.

So maybe despite the low costs they take a while to build.

**Sir Beane** · 03-01-2009, 19:37

Originally Posted by Polemists

Well I don't recall price but I do remeber that CA said at some point your best ships would take time to build and you could not just build them in a single turn.

So maybe despite the low costs they take a while to build.

They had better. Although I'm sure mods will change everything anyway

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