AI, economy, unit size and missile attack questions

[Cortex]

Hey everyone, I used to play the original RTW back when it was a brand new game and I've been told about EB by a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago. Well, definitely a great mod, but I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind -

Does the AI actually care about finances? It seems to me that the economy is pretty harsh, I can hardly afford a bunch of the worst units and still have to wait incredibly long to be able to build something in the city, while the AI happily spams units and probably builds. So, does the AI "cheat"?

And something relating to it - is there any point in sacking cities? I tried to "sack" Antiocheia and Seleukeia (i.e. enslave the population and raze all building that can be razed) and it didn't seem to have any effect.

And in other words - am I doing something wrong or is the economy really a harsh mistress? I cannot imagine having a cataphract unit, I would have to disband everybody else.

Is there any reason why everybody in the AARs uses huge unit size? Does it affect the unrest? I mean, is the unrest penalty relative or absolute? Or any other reason or is it purely an aesthetic choice? Oh, and while I am at it, if you use the huge size, does the AI reflect to it and does it therefore use less units or does it plunder the population? I wouldn't like to a) fight unequal battles as I would recruit only as much as possible to have my cities grow and b) I wouldn't want to have every newly conquered city populated by 400 citizens or whatever the minimum is.

I vaguely remember from the original RTW that when attacked by a missile weapon, only the shield protection counted. Is still true? I also equally vaguely remember that being shot to back or to the side with a weapon (i.e. the other than with a shield) was much more devastating. It seems to me that in EB shooting the phalanx in the back works quite well, but it has no effect whatsoever to shoot them from (my) left.

And the last one (for now :-) ) : the description of the mines says 2000 and 5000 respectively while the income scroll in a settlement says it is only 600. A bug? A mistake? Which one of them is true? I had the mines in the beginning and can't destroy them to see the difference in the faction budget.

Thanks in advance for eventual answers and sorry for my poor English :-)

[Zett]

So, does the AI "cheat"?

FAQ says: The AI gets some assistance. The not perfect solution is that the AI factions are getting financial help via script, if their treasury is under a certain amount of mnai. "You have brain, and the AI has money."

So, yes the AI cheats

And in other words - am I doing something wrong or is the economy really a harsh mistress? I cannot imagine having a cataphract unit, I would have to disband everybody else.

Build up your economy, build ports and mines for example.
Cicero says: Endless money forms the sinews of war.

Oh, and while I am at it, if you use the huge size, does the AI reflect to it and does it therefore use less units or does it plunder the population? I wouldn't like to a) fight unequal battles as I would recruit only as much as possible to have my cities grow and b) I wouldn't want to have every newly conquered city populated by 400 citizens or whatever the minimum is.

IIRC the AI cities get via script +200 men if it recruits a unit. That means if they recruit elite troops which have a size of 120 men (on huge size) their cities grow faster then normal, if they recruit some skirmischers (240 men on huge size) the city loses only 40 men per unit.

And the last one (for now :-) ) : the description of the mines says 2000 and 5000 respectively while the income scroll in a settlement says it is only 600. A bug? A mistake? Which one of them is true? I had the mines in the beginning and can't destroy them to see the difference in the faction budget.

The amount of money you get from mines changes from region (city) to region (city), so check the income scroll of the city, that number is true.

And please read the FAQ first

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Cortex]

FAQ says: The AI gets some assistance. The not perfect solution is that the AI factions are getting financial help via script, if their treasury is under a certain amount of mnai. "You have brain, and the AI has money."

So, yes the AI cheats

And please read the FAQ first

Ehm, sorry, I read it a month or more ago and I though there were no answers to my questions, my mistake. But hey, at least I am not asking about the government system! :-))

Build up your economy, build ports and mines for example.
Cicero says: Endless money forms the sinews of war.

Heh, yeah, easy to say, bu to have some extra cash (at least as Armenia) in the beginning means to disband every single unit, which is....not exactly temtping, let's say.

IIRC the AI cities get via script +200 men if it recruits a unit. That means if they recruit elite troops which have a size of 120 men (on huge size) their cities grow faster then normal, if they recruit some skirmischers (240 men on huge size) the city loses only 40 men per unit.

Ah, great. Well, not so great, because that means they will spam armies of thousands, but I guess that is the part where the "you have a brain, the Ai has money/numbers" comes in (again ;-) ).

The amount of money you get from mines changes from region (city) to region (city), so check the income scroll of the city, that number is true.

Ok, thanks a lot.

[Primative1]

Heh, yeah, easy to say, bu to have some extra cash (at least as Armenia) in the beginning means to disband every single unit, which is....not exactly temtping, let's say.


Ah, great. Well, not so great, because that means they will spam armies of thousands, but I guess that is the part where the "you have a brain, the Ai has money/numbers" comes in (again ;-) ).

You have 2 choices when you start a campaign;

Blitz with your starting armies & use them to expand your tax base or disband and build up your economy in your starting cities.

[Cortex]

I am playing as Armenia, as in every game which includes Armenia. :-)

I would gladly disband it and build up my economy, but that would leave me vulnerable. I am really looking forward to EB II which I guess will include a) free upkeep for certain units if in a city b)recruiting more units at the same time. That seems pretty ideal to me. No with the one unit per round system, I can do hardly anything if the Seleukids besiege Armavir.

In any case, I don't want to be a whiner, I am not as much complaining about the balance as I am asking for suggestions or explanations. But yes, the income/upkeep balance is very different from other mods or Medieval II, but yes, I've been warned in the FAQ and should just suck it up. :-)

However, it really is frustrating to pay some cca 10k just for the MIC when I already pay outrageous sums for recruitment and upkeep.

But then again - eat it or beat it, I know :-)

[theoldbelgian]

if you want to play as hayasdan good luck with that, there are severall other threads wich give you advice on playing as the hai
as said by the faction description they are nigh-impossible and aren't recommended even for mid good players so very good luck with that
other answers of your questions
huge unit size gives you a more real fealing and generally for me more men is beter also they are better for your unrest indeed because they have the seem upkeep as normal but more men=> more garisson bonus
also indeed the defense skill bonus doesn't work on arrows and it onlu works from the front and the rightso yes if you hit them in the left side this should have more effect

ok that was it I think good luck with your campaign and hoping you succeed

[Dayve]

You have 2 choices when you start a campaign;

Blitz with your starting armies & use them to expand your tax base or disband and build up your economy in your starting cities.

You don't have either option as Armenia. The army you start with is small and of poor quality, save for your generals guards. The only cities you can blitz with that are 2 or 3 rebel cities around you. Try blitzing Seleukid lands with it and, when they're done laughing in your face, they'll wipe the floor with you.

You can't disband and build up because the Seleukids are coming for you right from turn 1.

[Cortex]

Yeah, something like that, but there is more to it than a tough beginning.

According to the Recruitment Viewever (which is a little outdated, I guess, but should still provide roughly reliable information) Armenia or Hayasdan, as you like it, is openly discriminated against! :-)

Let's take a look at these guys



They have more or less the same statistics as Polybian Principes, but these poor, oppressed Armenians cost more than 100 mnai per round more than the Romans and available from the level 4, while Principes are available from the level 3.

Well, actually I can get over it quite easily - the Georgian infantry is only slightly weaker and available from the level 3 and you can argue that Armenian warfare was primarily based on cavalry, so this only copes with the facts. Fair enough, but why in that case do the Pahlava have Cataphracts from the level 4 (and something with even better statistics called Pahlava Noble Cataphracts available from even the level 3!) while its Armenian counterpart with identical statistics is available to me from the level 5, which I will probably never achieve :-) ?

I'm going to check this in-game...

Ah, I guess it is a deliberate attempt to make one faction "nigh-impossible", but why does it have to be my favourite faction? Why me, why me?

Oh and thanks for the wishes.

[Primative1]

You don't have either option as Armenia. The army you start with is small and of poor quality, save for your generals guards. The only cities you can blitz with that are 2 or 3 rebel cities around you. Try blitzing Seleukid lands with it and, when they're done laughing in your face, they'll wipe the floor with you.

You can't disband and build up because the Seleukids are coming for you right from turn 1.

You have a third choice apparently.;

You get screwed.

[Zett]

Heh, yeah, easy to say, bu to have some extra cash (at least as Armenia) in the beginning means to disband every single unit, which is....not exactly temtping, let's say.

Good luck with the Hai, they have a very difficult start.

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Subotan]

What faction are you playing as?