The Battle of Edessa - Battle thread

[GeneralHankerchief]

Turn 2 feedback

Feedback to Andronikos

Your missile troops engage as ordered. Isn't it nice to have your men doing what they're told to? Theo's cavalry, unsupported by his other divisions, quickly comes under a crossfire from your missile cavalry and foot archers.

Sensing that this could be potentially catastrophic if it continues, Theo's cavalry charges straight for yours. Your horsemen, caught in a Cantabarian Circle formation, can't get out of the way in time and thus are dragged into a melee engagement despite your wishes. However, Theo's lack of support plus your foot archers continuing to stay in firing range are two advantages that your adversary is unable to overcome.

You take some losses and your missile cavalry is no more, but you have also gutted Theo's greatest advantage. Now, perhaps, it's time to exercise *your* advantage.

Feedback to Theo

The cavalry division closest to Andronikos opens up on his horse archers, as ordered. However, as your escort makes it way to the middle of the battlefield, you notice your cavalry division is idle. Evidently it lost or just plain never received the orders you sent to it. Screaming, you ride hard to the division, but by the time you get there it's too late. You can only watch what takes place ahead of you.

Unsupported by any of your other divisions, your cavalry has come under a crossfire thanks to Andronikos's foot archers. Naturally, this just provides more incentive for your division to charge, as ordered, and it does so, catching the enemy in a Cantabarian circle.

However, the charge almost works too well for its own good. Since Andronikos's cavalry had no time to retreat, you hit them while they were still in range of his cursed foot archers, which continued doing devastating damage on your men. You're afraid to look at what happens.

Eventually, you do, and it is as you feared - one of your cavalry divisions is gone. They have severely bloodied Andronikos's men... but still. At the numerical advantage he has, any even tradeoff works in his favor.

Staring daggers at your remaining cavalry division, you prepare to issue orders for the next turn. At least, being so close to you, this time they'll obey.

Orders

Callistus, You have done your task well. Now, draw back closer to our infantry lines.

All other Hecatontarchs, advance eastward along the river.

Manuel and Cyrus, if Theo or his cavalry charge either of your divisions, Callistus and I will swing around and pin the enemy.

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Battle of Edessa Map

Theo's orders:

Both Infantry Divisions attack Andronikos' infantry unit that is closest to the river. Hopefully we can get the fight to him!

Me and my bodyguards and my last Cavalry Division will attack Andronikos' Archers.

I will never give up!

(No map since I think the orders are pretty clear)

Umpire notes for Turn 3

Units failing orders test: Theo’s infantry division closest to the river. Bad luck for IK as this was his single division that had a potential to fail it this turn. That die has no mercy.

I interpreted Theo’s cavalry order as a charge although there was some ambiguity. The deciding factor for this was the fact that his personal bodyguard was involved as well.

Interesting contingencies this turn as woad gave orders in case of a cavalry charge for two foot divisions but, as it turns out, not the actual division that was attacked. After some deliberation I decided to have Andronikos’s entire force (due to placement) assist but not after Theo had ample time to savage Andronikos’s archers.

I know nothing in woad’s orders called for the militia to help out, but since their orders were to literally march forward it’s kind of hard to keep them out of the battle.

My PM to Zim:

Hi Zim,

A little more work for you, although this one shouldn't be as hard.

Basically, Theo is ordering a cavalry charge on Andronikos's archers. They will be relieved since it's pretty hard not to considering the whereabouts of Andronikos's other forces, but woad&fangs did not provide contingency orders and thus to simulate confusion I will allow Theo's cavalry a bit of time to run wild before Andronikos responds.

I think it's pretty straightforward, but considering the archers' overlap with both of Andronikos's divisions, eventually his entire army will respond. To simulate to confusion, draw Andronikos's archers a little farther out than what is represented on the map and once the charge hits, have Andronikos's men pause for a bit before they react.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

If you have any questions, let me know.

GH

After some clarifications, Zim simulated the battle and sent me the results:

I did about 8 battles for this one (well, 9, but one didn't turn out).

First I did a couple on Theo's side to see how the charge would work out, with only Theo's men and Andronikos' archers on the battlefield. Both times saw fairly minor losses for Theo (10-20) after the charge and a few seconds waiting. Andronikos ended up with about a whole unit of archers surviving both times.

Then I tried it the other way, finding I could get the HAs to charge by having the archers turn their backs to them. Of course, this meant heavier losses for the archers, the majority of them dying the first test and virtually all of them the next. Theo saw heavier losses one battle and very light the other (SS seems fickle for how well HA charges go).

All in all I'd say Theo' depleted HAs died during the charge and about 2/3ds of Andronikos' archers, averaging the results. I decided to be optimistic for both sides and assume the best result each had, so all horsearchers survived while one unit of archers died.

I then played the main melee for both sides. For playing Theo's side I could include the archers again, which gave me more results favoring having one foot archer unit live while Theo's HAs were largely unscathed in the initial charge.

I charged away with Theo's horses at the foot archers, ramped up the battle speed, and waited. As expected the AI army rushed the HAs after a moment (with the exception of Andronikos' HAs, which stayed still).

Theo's general died both times. Losses varied a bit but generally it was about one unit of foot archers dying (around 100 of them) and 1-2 units of others (200 at the most). Casualties were even among Byz swordsmen and Town Militia (the Byz spearmen fared pretty well).

I then played from Andronikos' side, trying the "turn archers back to enemy" trick but it didn't work with a full army covering them, even at a moderate distance (maybe if I increased the distance the foot archers were ahead?).

So I took them out completely and had Andronikos' army make a mad charge. Both times Theo's general died or was captured and HAs died or routed. About two hundred of Andronikos' men died in the first try, 40 or so of his Byzantine Cavalry and the rest spread evenly again.

The second time went worse for Theo, with only 100 losses for Andronikos, again evenly spread but heavy among Byz Cav (largely because I needed those cav to catch Theo's men and force them into melee).

Results: I'd say on foot archer lived, assuming they didn't hang around after Andronikos' men relieved them. At least one town militia died, maybe a unit of Byz swordsmen as well, and possibly a decent number of Andronikos' HAs (half unit or so). At least, that would be my take on it.

Bad battle for Theo, and even Andronikos was hurt, being even weaker in cav now.

To sum it up, Theo charged, savaged some of Andronikos’s infantry, but eventually perished due to superior numbers. After clarifying with TinCow that IK had allowed Theo to die if need be, I decided to have his remaining infantry units surrender. As I am only in charge of the battle and not the greater campaign mechanics, I will leave the details of what happens to them (incorporation, disbandment, etc.) to TinCow.

All in all I think the lesson learned here is to definitely provide contingency orders as well as detailed ones. If you don’t, you leave it to the umpire’s discretion and you may not necessarily get the result you want, because the unexpected *will* happen.

Public feedback for Turn 3

The Turkish farmer watches as Andronikos orders a general advance. Despite having been hit by a recent cavalry attack, the secessionist's men are still in good order and well-disciplined, marching smoothly to the center of the battlefield. His gaze shifting to the east, the farmer sees Theo's men undergoing a less impressive advance. One of his infantry divisions is moving forward at a fast pace, eager to seek combat, but the infantries are so far away from each other that hand-to-hand combat will not be possible until next turn. Oddly enough, Theo's other infantry division remains stagnant.

However, Andronikos's smooth, enticing marching prematurely comes to a halt in the form of Theo and his remaining cavalry smashing into Andronikos's foot archers. The general seems to be surprised at this; the army pauses as he starts riding around. The Turkish farmer notes Andronikos making wild gestures with his hands; even from a distance it is apparent that he is screaming orders. All the while, Theo's cavalry is still ravaging the foot archers.

Eventually, Andronikos gets his act in order and his army responds. Due to the placement of the archers, being in front of all of Andronikos's infantry divisions, his entire army gets in the fight. The archers are quickly relieved, but not after they got wrecked.

Theo, mission accomplished, tries to get out but can't as a mass of infantry close on him. Desperate, he keeps hacking through, watching as his horse archers continue to drop around him. Eventually, Andronikos's infantry is joined by his cavalry, as his remaining horse archers and then his escort come in to help out.

At this point, the farmer can barely see anything discernable through the mass of men and horses that has dominated the battlefield. As such, he goes back to work, returning several minutes later when the engagement has concluded.

The mess in the south has resolved itself, as there is only one type of flag now waving. Evidently, Theo and his entire cavalry perished as superior numbers overwhelmed them. However, he did accomplish something. There is clearly less infantry there now as compared to before. It looks like Andronikos is down a regiment of Town Militia and another regiment of straight infantry, in addition to his horse archers looking even more depleted from before.

Casting his gaze to the east, he sees Theo's remaining divisions, all infantry, raising the white flag upon learning of the death of their commander. Upon this, he goes back to work, this time for good.

After all, there is nothing more to see here. Besides, there will be more battles.

Final map: