umm...

[Vuk]

A rant about the 'king of battle,' the sling, under-strength, as for the ratio of kills per volley??? Have not seen that one for awhile. Of course, this is why the sling has controlled the outcome of every battle until the coming of the first nuke? Although you protest otherwise, as introspection, do you think the problems you’re finding with EB have something to do with either your perception, level of experience, or intrinsic abilities? I’m Just asking the obvious and what most that read your comments are thinking.

For example try using the slingers against the rear or right flank of an enemy, yet with 6 or 7 kills per volley then you may complain the casualties caused are extreme or excessive?




CmacQ

Trust me, it is not their overall effectiveness that I find fault with, but their historically inaccurate battlefield role and capabilities. The same can be said for most other things in the battle system.

[Zett]

Trust me, it is not their overall effectiveness that I find fault with, but their historically inaccurate battlefield role and capabilities. The same can be said for most other things in the battle system.

First read this. Approach the discussion openly, sources in hand, but willing to listen.

If you present some sources or evidences about your view, this agumentation wouldn't be only about "I said this, you said that".

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

[Vuk]

First read this. Approach the discussion openly, sources in hand, but willing to listen.

If you present some sources or evidences about your view, this agumentation wouldn't be only about "I said this, you said that".

Ceterum censeo Romam esse delendam

2 things, first of all, I am in Hungary now, several thousand miles from any of my sources.
Second of all, a part of my evidence was based on my own experience, and so not testable. I am not a sloppy historian (in fact, will not be a historian at all technically for another year), but right now it is a little hard to get at anything. You can check my thread in the Frontroom if you do not believe me BTW, I am in Hungary studying (just got here two months ago).

[A Very Super Market]

Just a question, you aren't playing on very hard difficulty are you?

[Mediolanicus]

Trust me, it is not their overall effectiveness that I find fault with, but their historically inaccurate battlefield role and capabilities. The same can be said for most other things in the battle system.

Go complain to CA if you don't like the battle system. As said previously, that's hard coded.

Just a question, you aren't playing on very hard difficulty are you?

If this is the case, I'm going to laugh very, very hard...

[cmacq]

Trust me, it is not their overall effectiveness that I find fault with, but their historically inaccurate battlefield role and capabilities. The same can be said for most other things in the battle system.

Your words make trust impossible. Capabilities = Role = Overall effectiveness

...this is madness!


CmacQ

[Vuk]

Your statements make trust impossible. Capabilities = Role = Overall effectiveness

...this is madness!


CmacQ

I said that their roles and capabilities were inaccurate, not uneffective. If no one is even gonna take the time to read what I write, I will not bother arguing on this thread. I will make my own rebalance and let you critique that.

[A Very Super Market]

What difficulty are you on?

[seienchin]

Of course EB Battles are unrealistic and there are many strange things like the almighty Phalangitai, but the slinger are quite powerfull in EB.
But my goodness... Cavalery in EB is completly messed up (Thanks to Vanilla ^^).
Shock Cavallery like medievial nights were unthinkable in the EB time. Without saddles its impossible to stay on your horse, when using your spear to penetrate something. But on the other hand Cavallery dies very quick in close combat or like the cataphraktoi can perform impossible tasks like stay alive alone rounded by 100s of spear men... But the Generals are just hilarious... They just take way to many hits...
But I like the EB Battles.
They are just 10times funnier than Vanilla ones

[Visitor13]

Vuk, so are you playing on Very Hard battle difficulty or not? Because this may be the cause of your problems.

[Cute Wolf]

RTW Vanilla, slingers are just another versions of peasants with a sling and don't have much use...

EB = Slingers from hell!!! They mow down heavily armoured units... Let us spare the one with large shields, if I was a Hastati, and I faced a lot of slingers, I will cover my face with my shield, rather than hit on the forehead like the foolish goliath... even with their shields, they can't do much if outflanked....

[KipDan]

Ignore.

[antisocialmunky]

Lol, I remember the time in EB .8 where my sphendontai mowed down half a unit of Prodromoi before it charged the slingers and were routed by the last point blank volley.

[Kromulan]

Hmm. . . I don't use slingers much. I may hire 1~2 as mercs during a campaign (except as Saba... who NEED them). This is mostly because my uneducated opinion is that they're too powerful.

Also, the lethality of charge cavalry in ancient battles was VERY dependent on circumstances. A charge into the rear of an engaged levy infantry was absolutely devastating. Frontal charges on prepared and disciplined infantry was suicide. The change I would make would be to give 2 different charge ratings: 1 very high (like we have in EB) for rear or flanking charges and 1 much lower for frontal charges. I doubt this is possible within the game engine.

As to the "units need to be more mortal", I disagree. I think all units should have their defense raised and attacks should stay where they are. Even with the relative nerfing EB gave everything but the missiles via the lethality changes, units still die too quickly. Ancient battles were not decided by which side killed more of the enemy, they were decided by which side's morale broke. It was only AFTER one side broke and ran that the killing would begin in earnest. Therefore, EB's approach of trying to decrease the kill rates in battles is the correct approach (imo).

[Cyrus]

I kinda agree with Vuk, on that missiles in general are greatly underpowered, at least for the human player, just a few days ago i tested this theory and had 2 alpine shortswordsmen fight each other, they trew their volleys and while mine killed 10 his killed 50!!!!!!!!!!! That was repeated with 2 thureophoroi, and ,while with less losses due to armor i still lost three times more that the AI.
P.S. the conditions were equal for both units, flat terrein, m difficulty and launching of spears commenced at ruffly the same second........