Will we see all full first-rate fleets?

**Furunculus** · 03-03-2009, 14:05

Originally Posted by Discoman

I personally will be using 2nd rate or 3rd rate ships more often, the 2nd rate has more range than a 1st rate and reloads a little bit faster. So with stats and a cheaper price in mind, I think my fleets will consist of the cheaper ships of 2nd to maybe 4th rate.

have you got a link to the stats for that? :)

**Fisherking** · 03-03-2009, 14:55

While a few First Rates may be desirable defending home waters they are slow and do lack range.

Second Rates are a bit better and can load quicker and take a good amount of damage, however they are as slow or nearly so as the 1st Rates.

But I am thinking that 3rd Rates and 5th Rates are the ships to do the largest part of the work.

4th Rates are the same speed as 3rd Rates and don’t handle that well. 6th Rates are too light for most work but will make a fair escort ship.

The 5th Rates are too light for the line but they are quicker and good for crossing Ts ahead of your line, picking off stragglers, and harassing the enemy’s rear.

As to the lighter ships and vessels we will just have to see what they give us.

edit:

@ Furunculus

There was a post at Shogan that showed all the demo units but it has been edited out for some reason.

**Miracle** · 03-04-2009, 07:19

Originally Posted by Furunculus

have you got a link to the stats for that? :)

Here you go:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=20

Although this would become obsolete within a few days.

**geala** · 03-04-2009, 07:48

For me the only reason to play with full stacks of 1st or 2nd rate SoLs would be if it would be absolutely necessary because of AI behavior. I don't hope so. I like it a bit more historically.

By the way, some stats of the ships are a bit strange. Perhaps it was discussed elsewhere already. SoLs were often slightly faster than frigates, the bigger the faster, but they needed a very long time to achieve end speed. So because we lack an acceleration stat the lower speed of SoLs is acceptable. But why do have 1st rate Sols less range than other SoLs?? Just for some game play balance reasons I assume? But it should be the reverse, 1st and 2nd rates should be just slow to build and very expensive, nothing else.

*waiting for modders*

**NimitsTexan** · 03-04-2009, 07:50

1st/2nd Rates were, in fact, invariably slower than frigates and such. There is nothing ahistorical about that.

Range is of course, wrong, and I wonder if that is a typo/bug in the stats, especially as even the 6th Rate has more range.

**Elmar Bijlsma** · 03-04-2009, 10:58

Originally Posted by NimitsTexan

1st/2nd Rates were, in fact, invariably slower than frigates and such. There is nothing ahistorical about that.

Actually, speeds were roughly the same. SOL might have been bigger then frigates, they packed a lot more sail too.
I think the perception that SOL are inherently slower might stem from the Royal Navy where SOL had a long service life. This resulted in aged ships of older designs and thus often slower then their contemporaries. The French navy, having heavy losses inflicted upon them fairly frequently, had to commission new ships more often, resulting in brand spanking new SOL of the latest modern designs. Their reputation for speed was consequently very good.

Range is of course, wrong, and I wonder if that is a typo/bug in the stats, especially as even the 6th Rate has more range.

I think CA may have had in mind the slightly lesser range of three decked ships. The heavy guns were on a lower deck then on two deckers and this caused a noticeable drop in range. IMHO they've not only exaggerated the difference, they got it wrong in that the three decked 2nd rate isn't similairly disadvantaged.

**Sir Beane** · 03-04-2009, 12:14

SOL's were not greatly slower than Frigates (although they were slightly). They were much, much less manoeverable however. Pirate sloops and brigs could usually run rings around them in the reef-filled waters of the caribbean. Thats why you need smaller ships, for intercept and pirate-hunting duties.

**Furunculus** · 03-04-2009, 12:16

i got the impression from reading o'brien that frigates were quite often faster, however this advantage reversed in heavy seas where the greater weight of SoL allowed them greater headway.

**Sir Beane** · 03-04-2009, 12:20

Originally Posted by Furunculus

i got the impression from reading o'brien that frigates were quite often faster, however this advantage reversed in heavy seas where the greater weight of SoL allowed them greater headway.

It's certainly true that in heavy seas bigger ships are more stable and therefore sail better.

**Malkut** · 03-05-2009, 11:03

Nope, this just isn't gonna happen. They're really hard to get, they sail against the wind poorly, the upkeep is immense, and they have an Achilles heel in rockets. You'd be better off with the monetary equivalent in 3rd rates.

**AussieGiant** · 03-05-2009, 11:41

I'm not so sure they will be useless.

I'm certainly keen on getting a few 1st rates stationed at some of the natural bottlenecks and making nations run a gauntlet.

The Channel, Gibraltar and the Bosporus spring to mind. I certainly like the idea of controlling who and what gets through these points.

A few 100 Gun monsters will make that a task and a half in a confined space, I just hope the bottle necks have smaller battle maps...it would be great to be on top of them as soon as you hit the start button.