STW and WE are not the same game

[Wishazu]

I'm not sure there was any talk of "recreating history" here? The main issue being discussed was play balance, though I concur the changes to the unit stats improve the game no end, some players may prefer the game with the STW/MI 1.02b stats - each to his own. The good thing is that there are many different versions and for example if you and I wished to play an MP game all we would need is the same version of the game.


Personally I can deal with the Naginta Cavalry, Kensai and Battlefield Ninja because I never see that many for them to be a problem - what I've never liked is the Geisha - and this has been around since the first version of STW right through to MTW/VI 2.01 where it takes the form of the Inquisition. I could have lived with it if were easier to assassinate or if it were invisible and could be caught by counterspies but it's simply overpowered. In a recent campaign I played, the Geisha went for my royal line and wiped them out systematically. This is quite simply not needed and ruins a campaign. I also don't like the idea of the AI having unlimited wealth in the same way that I dislike AI morale bonus cheats.


Indeed and the problems with comparing one TW game with another is, where do you stop? We can go on about MTW vs RTW, then move onto STW vs MTW and then on to STW vs WE/MI. Perfection will never be achieved. Good results have been had through modding, though modding can't do much for AI and other hardcoded limits.

Also when we compare TW games in a way that rubbishes STW or mocks M2TW etc, etc, we risk alienating people for no good reason. This polarises them against us and ensures that they will never see our side of things. The important thing to remember is that they enjoy these games. Diplomacy is key.

It's all a matter of opinion I expect, also it depends on what someone is looking for in the game and how they approach it. Because someone else approaches the TW series from a different angle and tries to get something different from it than say a STW and MTW Single Player like myself, it doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't mean that they need to be trotted down to the re-education camp and given a good talking to. There are also a lot of stereotypes to be found. Just because someone is an SP player, does not mean that they don't care about battles having a tactical edge to them. It also does not mean that they prefer the RTW style campaign map over the old risk map. Everyone likes different things. Some like role play and historical accuracy, others like near perfect game balance, tactics and less emphasis on historical accuracy. There are many more who like differing quantities of these.

I can see the merits in all of the games. Of course there is one in particular that I can't stand, but I keep that to myself. STW I fire up every once in a while, just to relive some old times. MTW/VI is pretty much my main focus still. There are many good mods available for it also. Mods to suit every kind of player in fact. It's a shame that few get the recognition they deserve. RTW is not a bad game once patched up to v1.5, no it's not historically accurate but that's not an issue for me. We are all aware by now of the play balance and AI issues of RTW. Still it's not a bad "chill out" game and a good stress reliever in fact. For when you don't feel like thinking or just want to play a lot of sieges RTW is ok. There is a mod in development for RTW called "Ran No Jidai", this is probably the only mod for RTW that interests me at present. It's a pity that it is still not finished.

The next TW game has now been released and so far I am seeing mixed reports, though the AI and other facets of the gameplay are being praised. If CA can get it right this time and get the game patched quickly (which the Steam platform allows for) and without silly limits to the number of patches allowed then there is still hope for the TW series. RTW was a rebuild from the ground up and M2TW was based on this as we are all aware. Both of these games have been serious undertakings in terms of coding so it's obvious that there were going to be a lot of issues. Let us hope some (many) more of these issues have been ironed out with the release of ETW and that the series will begin to improve.

You took the words right out of my mouth. :)

[ReluctantSamurai]

I'm not sure there was any talk of "recreating history" here?

Perhaps 'recreating history' was a bad way to phrase it

What I meant was that I understand Puzz's drive for unit balance, proper unit stats, and challenging gameplay. I, myself, am a mod for an old WWII game, and I said many of the same things about that game that Puzz says about this one. And I learned the hard way that pushing my ideas on someone else just makes them less likely to listen to them, as you have said.

Let us hope some (many) more of these issues have been ironed out with the release of ETW and that the series will begin to improve.

[Grimoire]

I've just been watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=544OwlHM7Ao

and its sequels. Fascinating.

I have been playing the Warlords Edition in a fumbled manner, but since reading about the "reservations" concerning the game balance, I have been inspired to get back to the original...so. I've got it. I've patched up to 1.12 and I'm hoping to get into it. I'm even playing the tutorial.

It certainly has a different feel, right from the word go. And there is a certain affection expressed by the gentleman in the video on Youtube for this particular version, it seems

Just thought I'd add a bit.

[minishog]

To play/install the original S:TW do you have to uninstall the warlords edition?

[Togakure]

Id' think that if you install it to a different location it'd be fine. I never bothered with STW, but I've had three versions of MTW/VI installed at the same time.

[Tony Furze]

Both STW and STW ME can go into the same Total War folder-they're labelled differently.

Masamune: I'd really like one of your MTW/VIs! I just can't install it on my new Vista OS computer!

[Togakure]

...
Masamune: I'd really like one of your MTW/VIs! I just can't install it on my new Vista OS computer!

? Well, I can't play any form of MTW1 campaign on my current computer, which I've had for almost three years now. It crashes to the desktop as soon as the campaign map loads. The three installs I've had on here at once were for playing MP--MTW-VI, Samurai Warlords Beta 5, and SW Beta 8/8.1. I've since removed the VI install as I lost interest in playing that online.