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Thread: The Modern Whig Party

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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Post The Modern Whig Party

    I'm kinda interested in these guys. If they can manage to pull off some State-level wins, I would be quite happy. They claim to be "fiscal conservative social liberal," which, if true, and if they can create a coherent platform, would plant them in exactly the right position to grow into a real threat to the duopoly we've had for too long.

    This may inspire me to finally join a party. Take a gander, let me know what you think. Wishful thinking on the part of the prosimian, or a real development?
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

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    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Wishful thinking. The system is too rigged in favor of the Democrats and Republicans.

    I like their platform, however.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  3. #3
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    I don't mind if it seems unreasonable or unrealistic; unreasonable people are the folks who get things done.

    Political parties have come and gone in the past, although with depressing infrequency in our nation. All that's necessary is that the Whigs win some State contests and move on from there. The Republicans stand in danger of becoming a regional party, and the Dems are near experts at self-sabotage. I think there's a realistic chance for a new party to emerge, if it's done carefully and slowly.

    -edit-

    The other thing that gives me guarded hope is the fact that the majority of Americans describe themselves as fiscal conservatives and social liberals. Republicans have gained power in the past by pretending to be fiscal conservatives, and Democrats by pretending to be social liberals. A party that actually speaks to that broad, deep vein of support would be able to pull a lot of people.

    I also like the fact that this group is resurrecting an old party instead of inventing a new one. Shows a certain amount of respect for our history and traditions, something that rubs me the right way.
    Last edited by Lemur; 03-02-2009 at 16:30.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    It's amusing that the party that proclaims respect for state's rights also trumpets Lincoln as their man.

  5. #5
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    It's amusing that the party that proclaims respect for state's rights also trumpets Lincoln as their man.
    Heh, true. If anything Lincoln would be deified by the Federalist party.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    I don't think the name will go over well.

  7. #7
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    I don't think the name will go over well.
    Why not? It covers just about everything.
    This space intentionally left blank

  8. #8
    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoshi View Post
    Why not? It covers just about everything.
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  9. #9
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    It's amusing that the party that proclaims respect for state's rights also trumpets Lincoln as their man.
    It's true, the Whigs were anti-slavery, at least by the mid-1800s. I can see how not supporting a state's right to enslave people makes them inappropriate for a party that proclaims "Each state can generally determine its course of action based on local values and unique needs." Until the Modern Whigs renounce their fiendish anti-slavery stance, I shall oppose them!
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoshi View Post
    Why not? It covers just about everything.
    'cept brains.
    The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott

  11. #11

    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    It's amusing that the party that proclaims respect for state's rights also trumpets Lincoln as their man.
    The only state's right that the confederacy cared about was slavery...

  12. #12
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    A state should be allowed to leave the Union, even for the wrong reasons. Really, both sides should've lost the Civil War.

  13. #13
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    A state should be allowed to leave the Union, even for the wrong reasons. Really, both sides should've lost the Civil War.
    And let the Europeans keep wining? PFFFTt.

    I would say that a state has a right to secede if the feds can come in and rip out anything that had any amount of federal dollars put in it. Which makes any argument now null due to the fact we all suck at the feds tit. Even these farmers in west Texas who complain about the yankee bakers still gobble up cotton subsidies.

    As for 1860. The south had no right to secede even if you secession as legal. They saw the writing on the wall and made a last ditch effort. While invoking states right the planter elite sent thousands of southerners to there death defending some "Southern nobility"

    Now if you want to talk nullification well talk 1832 but the civil war is all about old boys trying to keep there system in place, nothing more. Don't let the propaganda machine feed you.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

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  14. #14
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Secession was never specifically addressed in the then-extant Constitution. The process for joining the Union was spelled out, but no means of departing said union was discussed.

    Interestingly, in the process of putting down the secession, Lincoln did accept the secession of most of NW Virginia (modern West Virginia) from Virginia. Certainly can't fault the man on his practicality.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 03-02-2009 at 19:24.
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    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by SFTS
    As for 1860. The south had no right to secede even if you secession as legal. They saw the writing on the wall and made a last ditch effort. While invoking states right the planter elite sent thousands of southerners to there death defending some "Southern nobility"
    That's why I wrote "Really, both sides should've lost the Civil War."

    If we accept our formation - a successful rebellion - as valid, I can't see why we would forbid succession.

    But whatever. America's broken. The only good news is our flailing about will take most everyone else down, too.

  16. #16
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    That's why I wrote "Really, both sides should've lost the Civil War."

    If we accept our formation - a successful rebellion - as valid, I can't see why we would forbid succession.

    But whatever. America's broken. The only good news is our flailing about will take most everyone else down, too.
    I think we also accept that the union has the right to pimp slap wayward state back in its place.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    That's why I wrote "Really, both sides should've lost the Civil War."

    If we accept our formation - a successful rebellion - as valid, I can't see why we would forbid succession.
    Don't we have the right to go to war too?

  18. #18
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    If we accept our formation - a successful rebellion - as valid, I can't see why we would forbid succession.
    Emphasis on successful. The Constitution doesn't allow for backsies. If a state thinks it's being short-changed, they can try to leave- but don't be surprised that everyone else doesn't want to let them walk away from their commitments.

    I think one of the worst blows to state's rights was the direct election of senators- and the states willingly did that to themselves.
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  19. #19
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Don't we have the right to go to war too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou
    Emphasis on successful. The Constitution doesn't allow for backsies. If a state thinks it's being short-changed, they can try to leave- but don't be surprised that everyone else doesn't want to let them walk away from their commitments.
    Ah, so might makes right.

  20. #20
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    Ah, so might makes right.
    Pretty much, yeah.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

  21. #21
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    Ah, so might makes right.
    At the end of the day, yes. Your ideals mean bugger all if you can't fight for them
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  22. #22
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Disgusting.

  23. #23
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    Disgusting.
    Why? That was what allowed us to win our independence. We could've written dozens of declarations of independence and accomplished nothing. It was force that allowed it to happen.

    There is no mechanism in the Constitution for a state to back out. They can declare they're leaving, but the other states and federal government can force them to live up to the obligations- and that's how it worked, in a nutshell.
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
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  24. #24
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    Disgusting.
    And the only reason you are allowed to feign such outrage is because the good ol US of A has been killing exploiting and coup d eating people for the past 100 years.

    Ideals are fine as long as you're willing to hit the other man in the mouth. Otherwise you're just a pacifist and you get someone else to hit the guy in the mouth.
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

  25. #25

    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander the Pretty Good View Post
    Disgusting.
    Wimp.

  26. #26
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Disgusting.

    I think so too. Might = Right is the most theory we have but it seems to hold true for alot of people...

    The major problem being it validates almost every wrong action ever... because at the time they were mighty enough so they were also right(y).. the holocaust and every individual case of peadophilia seems to be validated by the statement...

    Oops... well off topic!

    I would be extremely happy for a 3rd party to rise in USA, even if it wasn't exactly my views just the fact they are not the 'bought' politicians from either of the 2 major partys is enough to please me..
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  27. #27
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    So if the French hadn't bailed us out...

    Parliamentary monarchy would be a better system than a republic?
    Last edited by Alexander the Pretty Good; 03-02-2009 at 20:14.

  28. #28
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleGrizzly View Post
    The major problem being it validates almost every wrong action ever... because at the time they were mighty enough so they were also right(y).. the holocaust and every individual case of peadophilia seems to be validated by the statement...
    Disagree. Moral force counts for something, and it's part of the equation. A pedophile rapist might be able to force himself on a child, but then the much greater force of law enforcement will unleash on the molester, if all goes as it should. Likewise, land-grabbing megalomaniacs like Napoleon and Hitler can "might makes right" their way for a while, but eventually the rest of the world gets sick of their behavior and smacks them down.

    The good news is that sick, twisted sadists are a tiny minority of humanity. The rest of us can kick their asses anytime.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

  29. #29
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    So when America's experiment is overthrown, it will have been wrong all along?

    The good news is that sick, twisted sadists are a tiny minority of humanity. The rest of us can kick their asses anytime.
    Unless we've voted for them.

  30. #30
    Ice stink there for a ham. Member Mystery Science Torture 3000 Champion, Mini Putt 3 Champion, Super Hacky Sack Champion, Pencak Champion, Sperm Wars Champion, Monkey Diving Champion Yoyoma1910's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Modern Whig Party

    Good, cause my hair is starting to thin. I want my pompadour back.

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