Hoplitai and 0.2 density

[Woreczko]

Zett is right, 0.2 density transforms itself into a massive bonus in close combat. In my own files, I decreased attack of spearmen by 4 points and gave them 0.18 lethality to compensate (spear is a big and powerful weapon after all) . When I tried to implement 0.2 density for some units, they lethality had to be decreased to 0.1 in order to retain balance between units.

In the end I resigned from fiddling with radius attribute. While it allows hoplite units to fight in truely close order, it also makes their formation impossible to break. I mean, look at the macedonian phalanxes. They are impervious, when keeping an orderly pike-wall, but it`s still possible to mess them up. If they formation gets messed up, they easily fell prey to other units. Hoplites with 0.2 radius have no such weakness however. They will keep their extremely close formation no matter, how badly they are disordered and from whatever side you attack them.

[Satyros]

So would this mean that we either have to play with short_pike hoplites and suffer some graphics flaws or implement a lower density value on units and turn them into super-glued units ?

Would a possible solution to the hoplite issue involve a complete remake of all stats for most hoplite ( and " hoplite like " units ) to be accurate ? If so , it'd take a lot of work I suppose .

Damn me for being incompetent at modding .

If anyone has being doing any fiddling with stats please report any results . I would really prefer my hoplites not to explode backwards when attacking .

Satyros

P.S. : Not wanting to be an ungrateful b****** or anything , are there , or were there any thoughts from the EB team concerning this issue ? Well I only ask because with the guard button on , they hardly are a serious attacking unit , they take the role of a makedonian phalanx , tieing down the enemy . Is the guard button the only way for a hoplite unit to retain any hoplite-like cohesion at all ? I'd be grateful if someone from the team answered this and if so , I promise not to nag any more and drop the whole issue . So there . :)

[Celtic_Punk]

Right you are, but concerning the Massaliotai: They abandon the Phalany pretty always as melee starts ;-)

no they don't. not for me at least. All my troops with two different melee weapons work completely fine. I've never had a problem with my men changing from spears to swords.

[Watchman]

I've found it quite workable to give most infantry a flat 0.25 radius (axe- and longswordsmen mostly got 0.3 and the so-called "proto-phalanx" units - Iphikratean hoplites, the Alpine phalanxes etc. - 0.2). The "spreading out" effect is pretty minimal even with very densely packed troops like the hoplites, and close observation suggests it has interesting and desirable effects on how the individual soldiers behave.
Just for consistency I also duly reduced the x-radius stat of all horses by 0.1, and on the off chance it matters at all gave all mounted soldiers a radius of 0.3. Better safe than...

[Celtic_Punk]

I'm giving this a bump because i'm interested in density tweeking. this discussion shouldn't die.