AW: Hoplitai and 0.2 density
What about the Basilikon Agema (Royal Guards)?The unit descrition says nothing about fighting as a phalanx (only fighting with a dory spear). They only share the same model with the Thorakitai Hoplitai, but IMO we should delete them from the unit list. They fought as Royal Guards and elite infantery, they do not need a lower density.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:The Ptolemaioi had a problem with their elite infantry from the start. Namely, they didn't have any, since the Seleukidoi and Makedonians took what remained of Alexandros' Hypaspistai. Therefore, they had to build a unit of royal heavy infantry to compete with their rivals. Many things were tried, but ultimately the result was the Basilikon Agema, the Royal Guard. They are armed with hoplites spears and thureos shields and armored in mail, making them more mobile but less well armored than other heavy infantry. They also carry a short sword that was used rather like the Romaioi used theirs. This led to the misidentification of these troops by Latin authors as a sort of imitation legion. The Basilikon Agema is full of good troops, mostly Hellenes and Makedonians with a few Galatai and Kretai. They are an elite infantry, well able to fight in a phalanx and to break the formation and fight with their blades. They are extremely versatile and can be used to good effect by a capable commander.
Historically, the Basilikon Agema were the elite guard of the Ptolemaic king. They went everywhere with their king, and were instrumental in putting down several native revolts along with the Galatai. They outfought the natives with creative tactics that worked well against other successor pikemen as well. Most of the unit was not present at Raphia, but was used to good effect against the Seleukidai on other occasions.
About the Massaliotai:I think we should give them a density of 0.3. Same level as native greek Haploi Hoplitai, to simulate the celtic influence.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:Massalia is a city in an interesting position. It is a Greek city, but with a substantial Celtic population and relations with neighboring Celtic tribes. Its soldiers have adjusted themselves with some Celtic gear to make them of greater use in a close melee if the phalanx is abandonned.(which means they fought in a phalanx) They make use of a superior Celtic longsword in close quarters, able to handle themselves better in such situations compared to others with lesser weapons.
Historically, Massalia was home to a substantial Greco-Celt population who were attracted to the temple of Herakles there. The inhabitants of Massalia remained largely Greek in culture, but trading, intermarrying, and fighting with nearby Celtic tribes led to crossovers in the equipment carried by each side. The soldiers of Massalia, for example, began using Celtic-style longswords and occassionally other pieces of equipment. They fought, otherwise, in a manner more typical of Hellenic soldiers.
About the Syrakosioi:They fought in a less dense formation, therefore they shouldn't get a lower density.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:These men hail from one of the greatest poleis built by Hellenes, that of Syrakousai. The Syrakosioi Hoplitai are equipped with Italo-Attic helmets, lamellate cuirasses, armoured pteryges, aspis shield and greaves, while they carry a longer spear than most hoplitai use and a short sword for close melee. Centuries of warfare against armies different from that found in Hellas proper have changed the Syrakosioi Hoplitai's equipment and tactics somewhat compared to their �mainland cousins�. They are still meant to pin enemy troops down for others to hack to pieces, but unlike other Hellenic spearmen they can fare relatively well in close melee, using their shortswords to stab quicky beneath their aspis shields.
Historically, Syrakousai was among the greatest cities in the Hellenic world and who had for centuries waged wars against many enemies, mainly Carthage. Syrakousai had arguably the greatest army numerically among the Hellenic city-states and its Hoplitai formed the nucleus. The Syrakosioi Hoplitai were armed and fought as regular Hoplitai, although they adjusted themselves to the more free flowing and more organized forms of western infantry warfare (as in west of Greece). While in Greece proper it was largely hoplite against hoplite or against poor non-Hellenic infantry (the Thracians being the notable exception), in the western Mediterranean Syrakousai had to face Carthaginians in the west and Ligurian, Bruttian and Lucanian pirates and mercenaries from the north and also Illyrians, Gauls and other peoples who raided Sicily fairly regularly when they had a chance, which mostly meant whenever Syrakousai and Carthage were at war.
Syrakosioi Hoplitai fought in a less dense formation than normal for Hoplitai, but with longer spears, which they wielded with underhand thrusts. This meant that they could pin down enemy infantry with a sort of "hedgehog shieldwall" for the heavy Epilektoi soldiers to break through the middle, and cavalry to hit the flanks. In addition they also dropped the xiphos sword in favour of a shortsword made for stabbing, which they used to stab beneath their aspis shields, a technique Syrakousai adopted alongside the hoplitai of Taras anes who were more adept at close combat melee than the soldiers fielded in Greece.
About the Hoplitai Troglodutikes (Red Sea Hoplites):The description says, that they fought as Ekdromoi ("skirmisher hunter"). They had to be fast to catch up with skirmishers, Hoplitephalanx was too slow to do so. IMO they should stay as they are, no lower density.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:Hoplitai Troglodutikes (Erythraian Sea Hoplites) are mostly Hellenic colonists who were drawn to the Erythraian Sea coast. After initial exploration Ptolemaioi founded colonies in there to hunt elephants and trade with the natives and as far as India. Local garisson forces took part in those hunts and many of the veterans remained on those colonies after retiring. As in each Hellenic polis, a local force of hoplites would be summoned at time of need. Having completed the rigorous "ephebike askesis" they would be ready to fight against their enemies and as such the rigorous demands for citizenship have been lowered to whomever is available. The enemies aren't hoplites or Phallangitai. They are the skirmishers and spearmen of the Troglodytai, the fierce archers of Meroe and Inner Aithiopia, and maybe even the lightly armored but deadly Sabaioi. Hellenic discipline and courage can win the day, but not by underestimation of those enemies. Against those, while retaining the same offensive equipment, (spear and aspis shield), bronze muscle cuirass and linothorax have been dumped in favor of lighter quilted armour. It is easier to wear in the tropics as ancient Aigyptioi had proven. No pteryges, as they add to weight and can raise body temperature. A trusty "machaira" compliments their equipment too. Their helmet is an evolved Boiotian, the ideal helmet for providing some sort of eye protection in the desert and african coast. Their aspis has no bronze coating, relying on elephant skin instead. Natives had been using such an arrangement, for some time. Now Hoplitai Troglodutikes must do the same.
Historically Ptolemaioi were very interested in the southern regions of their domain. Akte Troglodutike or the coast of the Troglodutes was perhaps the "wild, unexplored" frontier of the time. The rising elephant hunts as well as the trade with Sabaioi and Indoi, led to the founding of a series of Colonies, with Filotera, "founded by Satyr [a Ptolemaioi general] when he was sent hunting elephants in Troglodytiki" (Strabo,16,4-5) being the first. Soon enough, Arsinoe Troglodytiki, Berenike Troglodytiki, Ptolemais of the Elephantotheron (Elephant hunters) were founded. As frontiermen always do, those people cared more for what someone could do, not the purity of his Hellenic blood. Thus Hellenised Aigyptians and other nationals could be there and perfectly fit in. However rich and promising their situation was, their enemies were at the doors as to a Troglodyte which many of them were, the Colonists were godly rich. The local hoplites fight as ekdromoi mostly, since this is the only way they can effectively deal with the fluid battlefield environment in that area. Colonies in that region existed for many centuries and that was due, in no small part to the ability of their inhabitants to defend them.
from satalexton, his name is Plato 
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Originally Posted by SwissBarbar
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, ok 0.3!
. No, really, we should think about that, if a Hoplit switches to sword he is no longer able to stay with his shield in the phalanx formation. He have to move his shield away to slash. So the minimum for all units with a secondary weapon (except Iphikratous and Thorakitai Hoplitai, because they are native Greeks) such as Hypaspistai, Massaliotai, Baktrion Agema and Indohellenikoi Eugeneis Hoplitai, should be 0.3 (IMO).
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