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Thread: Dawn of War II
The Assault Marines and their landing AOE dmg and knockback are ridiculously overpowered. Combine them with a melee spec'ed commander sporting a teleporter and it's pure OP pwnage. Seriously, all you need to do is get just within range of a group of baddies, initiate a jump jet assault then port in the commander. The commander typically arrives first, aggros everything (initiate Warcry if necessary) and then the Assault squad lands to flatten the rest. Rush in the other squads to assist; Avitus on Focus Fire, Tarkus for general fire support and the occasional 'nade. Wash, rinse, repeat. This is particularly effective against the Tyranids since it immediately negates the effectiveness of their swarm style units. I have to force myself to use Cyrus and his scout team against the Eldar and Orks just to spice things up.
I have mixed feelings about the SP game.
I love the way the story and mission progression is structured. Even though the writing is lacking and stilted I'm still sucked in by the whole affair. I love having to put out fires and stem the Tyranid tide on each of the planets. I also love the rpg aspect to leveling & kitting my squad. The gorgeous graphics, spectacular effects & animation and the overall excellent presentation help a great deal.
The maps get old... quick. How many times do I need to fight over the same ground? At least in DoW: Dark Crusade & SoulStorm even if you fought over the same ground the traditional RTS build & battle design meant each battle was never the same. In DoW2 each time you're forced to fight for the same region the enemies are found in the same exact areas. Eventually you find yourself following a pattern which ultimately becomes boring the nth time you've done it.
I hate the boss battles... BOSS BATTLES?!? What is this, a PS1 game? I outgrew boss battles back in the late 90s. I hate them. I hate having to run around like a ninny and wear down an uber enemy with a ridiculous amount of health. I hate having to figure out the special strategy and then do it over and over. Shoot the generators and when the boss breaks into song kick him in the family jewels! It's tired, dull and it smacks of lack of imagination. Enough already. What's worse is DoW2's boss battles are pretty much the same regardless of the type of boss you fight. Quickly clearing out the same map for the umpteenth time and saving the boss battle for last just so I can max out the XP rewards and gain an additional deployment pretty much sucks the immersion out of the game for me.
MP & Skirmish modes
I'm not an uber-micro skill RTS player so I avoid the pain and anguish that accompanies playing MP games vs. kids & geeky teens on sugar highs. In fact I'd go so far as to say that despite the smaller scale DoW2 requires far more uber-micro skills than CoH & DoW combined! Just to give you an idea of my likes/dislike the Total War games are about the only kind of RTS MP I enjoy playing.
The skirmish AI blows, it's worse than Company of Heroes and alot worse than DoW:SS. That alone kills this game's long term place on my hard drive. Annihilation mode was a blast in DoW and CoH but it doesn't cut it anymore in DoW2, it's clear the gameplay and maps simply aren't geared towards that mode anymore. I don't like Take & Hold style games because I find the notion of holding onto x number of nodes for x period of time too artificial, gamey and seriously un-warlike.
Where is the war in WARHAMMER? This feels more like SpecOpshammer 40K than Warhammer 40K. I love small unit actions as much as the next guy but there is a glaring lack of 'epic' in this game, much moreso than Company of Heroes which already scaled back the 'epic' in contrast to the original Dawn of War games. I can deal with the small scale action in the SP game but I really want to fight giant battles in skirmishes vs. the AI.
Oh, and the music? Well, it's... there. I have every DoW & CoH track on my mp3 player and I rarely tire of listening to them. Inon Zur did a great job scoring those games! But with DoW2 most of the music sounds like it's sole purpose is just to provide some background noise while you kill everything. I can't believe this stuff was composed by Jeremy Soule, it sounds like he just 'mailed in' the entire soundtrack so he could get a new addition to his house.
Despite my larger list of dislikes I do like the game... but it just doesn't have enough meat to keep me coming back for more like the original DoW did. Once I clear the SP game I do not see myself loading it up for repeated skirmish games vs. the AI. I'll take a heavily modded DoW campaign or skirmishes battle anyday (DoWXP and Skirmish AI = pure joy). Company of Heroes didn't offer the same challenge or longevity as DoW and sadly it appears DoW2 is simply more of the same.
Overall I think DoW2 ranks below DoW & CoH. I think Relic needs to go back tobasics the winning formula that made DoW & CoH such huge successes. Keep DoW2's rpg aspect and random campaign missions and ditch the rest.
I have mixed feelings about the SP game.
I love the way the story and mission progression is structured. Even though the writing is lacking and stilted I'm still sucked in by the whole affair. I love having to put out fires and stem the Tyranid tide on each of the planets. I also love the rpg aspect to leveling & kitting my squad. The gorgeous graphics, spectacular effects & animation and the overall excellent presentation help a great deal.
The maps get old... quick. How many times do I need to fight over the same ground? At least in DoW: Dark Crusade & SoulStorm even if you fought over the same ground the traditional RTS build & battle design meant each battle was never the same. In DoW2 each time you're forced to fight for the same region the enemies are found in the same exact areas. Eventually you find yourself following a pattern which ultimately becomes boring the nth time you've done it.
I hate the boss battles... BOSS BATTLES?!? What is this, a PS1 game? I outgrew boss battles back in the late 90s. I hate them. I hate having to run around like a ninny and wear down an uber enemy with a ridiculous amount of health. I hate having to figure out the special strategy and then do it over and over. Shoot the generators and when the boss breaks into song kick him in the family jewels! It's tired, dull and it smacks of lack of imagination. Enough already. What's worse is DoW2's boss battles are pretty much the same regardless of the type of boss you fight. Quickly clearing out the same map for the umpteenth time and saving the boss battle for last just so I can max out the XP rewards and gain an additional deployment pretty much sucks the immersion out of the game for me.
MP & Skirmish modes
I'm not an uber-micro skill RTS player so I avoid the pain and anguish that accompanies playing MP games vs. kids & geeky teens on sugar highs. In fact I'd go so far as to say that despite the smaller scale DoW2 requires far more uber-micro skills than CoH & DoW combined! Just to give you an idea of my likes/dislike the Total War games are about the only kind of RTS MP I enjoy playing.
The skirmish AI blows, it's worse than Company of Heroes and alot worse than DoW:SS. That alone kills this game's long term place on my hard drive. Annihilation mode was a blast in DoW and CoH but it doesn't cut it anymore in DoW2, it's clear the gameplay and maps simply aren't geared towards that mode anymore. I don't like Take & Hold style games because I find the notion of holding onto x number of nodes for x period of time too artificial, gamey and seriously un-warlike.
Where is the war in WARHAMMER? This feels more like SpecOpshammer 40K than Warhammer 40K. I love small unit actions as much as the next guy but there is a glaring lack of 'epic' in this game, much moreso than Company of Heroes which already scaled back the 'epic' in contrast to the original Dawn of War games. I can deal with the small scale action in the SP game but I really want to fight giant battles in skirmishes vs. the AI.
Oh, and the music? Well, it's... there. I have every DoW & CoH track on my mp3 player and I rarely tire of listening to them. Inon Zur did a great job scoring those games! But with DoW2 most of the music sounds like it's sole purpose is just to provide some background noise while you kill everything. I can't believe this stuff was composed by Jeremy Soule, it sounds like he just 'mailed in' the entire soundtrack so he could get a new addition to his house.
Despite my larger list of dislikes I do like the game... but it just doesn't have enough meat to keep me coming back for more like the original DoW did. Once I clear the SP game I do not see myself loading it up for repeated skirmish games vs. the AI. I'll take a heavily modded DoW campaign or skirmishes battle anyday (DoWXP and Skirmish AI = pure joy). Company of Heroes didn't offer the same challenge or longevity as DoW and sadly it appears DoW2 is simply more of the same.
Overall I think DoW2 ranks below DoW & CoH. I think Relic needs to go back to
As much as I agree with you (from my beta experience, I think I'll try the campaign just for the heck of it), it's true that releasing a basic RTS would have been suicidal with Starcraft 2 coming soon.
We all know SC2 will rock the house and pretty much destroy any concurrent. I don't really know how, as I don't think SC1 was awesome, but it will anyway.
We all know SC2 will rock the house and pretty much destroy any concurrent. I don't really know how, as I don't think SC1 was awesome, but it will anyway.
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
As much as I agree with you (from my beta experience, I think I'll try the campaign just for the heck of it), it's true that releasing a basic RTS would have been suicidal with Starcraft 2 coming soon.
We all know SC2 will rock the house and pretty much destroy any concurrent. I don't really know how, as I don't think SC1 was awesome, but it will anyway.
Well you're right, a basic sci-fi RTS would be hard pressed to distract people from SC2. But what I meant is that Relic needs to return to the formula that made DoW & CoH such addictive hits. Relic took a gamble with DoW2's new design and it appears to not have gone over as well as they'd hoped. They clearly didn't test this design enough before unleashing it on millions of DoW/CoH fans. Anyway I would hate to see Relic make another old school style RTS. I'll amend my post.As much as I agree with you (from my beta experience, I think I'll try the campaign just for the heck of it), it's true that releasing a basic RTS would have been suicidal with Starcraft 2 coming soon.
We all know SC2 will rock the house and pretty much destroy any concurrent. I don't really know how, as I don't think SC1 was awesome, but it will anyway.
There is actually an version for WH:40K called epic... now that would be great... even with RPG elements... I for one would love to manage an entire chapter from serf to vehicle to space marine with dow2 and chaos gate levels of detail.
Love detail on the strategy level, hate micro managing on the real time level.
Love detail on the strategy level, hate micro managing on the real time level.
I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
I'm not sure I would like a real-time one either to be honest. The main appeal of DoW was zooming in and watching a dreadnought smashing a squad of Orks, or a Banshee squad cutting something to pieces. Watching two Titans shooting at each other from miles away wouldn't be nearly as interesting imo.
Now, if said game allowed to zoom in to the level of detail of DoW, I'm all for it (Basically, a mix of regular W40K and Epic40K).
I'm not sure I would like a real-time one either to be honest. The main appeal of DoW was zooming in and watching a dreadnought smashing a squad of Orks, or a Banshee squad cutting something to pieces. Watching two Titans shooting at each other from miles away wouldn't be nearly as interesting imo.
Now, if said game allowed to zoom in to the level of detail of DoW, I'm all for it (Basically, a mix of regular W40K and Epic40K).
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
It had all the races, and there was infantry as well as vehicles and titans, but the infantry was by squad, not individuals. Decent game, but painting those miniatures was a royal pain. I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
Originally Posted by drone:
It had all the races, and there was infantry as well as vehicles and titans, but the infantry was by squad, not individuals. Decent game, but painting those miniatures was a royal pain.
I'm talking about a video game here, not Epic 40K itself :-P Said game only had a few races, like Orks and a variation of the Imperium (pretty sure it was the Imperial Guard, but might have been the Space Marines).It had all the races, and there was infantry as well as vehicles and titans, but the infantry was by squad, not individuals. Decent game, but painting those miniatures was a royal pain.
Oh yeah, found it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_L...er_40,000_Epic
Im going to bump this because I dont feel like making a new thread.
Im really enjoying DoW1 + expansions, and I was thinking of getting DoW2, but the whole Steam thing is getting me worried.
I have no internet connection for my laptop, which is the only thing that can play DoW2. So does this mean I cant play DoW2?
Im really enjoying DoW1 + expansions, and I was thinking of getting DoW2, but the whole Steam thing is getting me worried.
I have no internet connection for my laptop, which is the only thing that can play DoW2. So does this mean I cant play DoW2?
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
I remember going to a friends house and playing something like this. You could choose to entrench Guardsmen, and there was huge weapons lists for vehicles. I could never find the name of that game, its a shame, I love it. Blasted old PC games>_>I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
5mm or so squads, landraiders that were the size of thumbs, and titans that are ostriches to the dreadnaughts finch.I vaguely remember an Epic 40K game released quite a while ago. I think it only had Orks and the Imperial Guard, and unhappilly, only vehicles (no standard troops). It was a turn-based game, and me being an impatient teenager back then, I didn't really appreciate it.
Pure luv.
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