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Thread: Spain

  1. #1
    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default Spain

    Spain is one of the 12 major factions available for play.

  2. #2
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Ok, I'll get the ball rolling:

    M/M, Spain starts out in a less than advantageous position: It has 2 fleets (6 ships) evenly spread between the american and european theatres, and a small army in Spain as well as some garrisons in Italy, Flanders, Cuba and Florida.

    My campaign has been quite unspectacular because I tried to do too many things at once.

    I focused on strengthening my garrisons in Flanders and Lombardy, as well as getting alliances from Genoa, Venice, the Italian States, the german states around the Netherlands, and trade agreements with most of them. Notice that Carlos II is so bad, you'll lose reputation with nations you're not trading/allied with, so don't let the spots go unchecked.

    Replace ministers, if you can find better alternatives, and set the rich taxes to very high. This early in the game it doesn't matter. Plus most ministers will get mistresses anyway, which will keep the rich happy.

    Now: upgrade your farms and any industrial buildings asap. You need cash. Also build up the barracks in Madrid, and any recruiting buildings across Europe and Cuba. I chose Cuba to be my military base in America because of the nice central location.

    You can build up a stack in Cuba (you'l be able to recruit line infantry there after you upgrade the governor's barracks), and kill off the Creek if you feel so inclined, but I let them be. I didn't upgrade Florida at all, as I didn't want to be close to the English posessions (the mission requires you to take Curacao and Amsterdam, which will being war with the Dutch and English), and traded Florida to France for 4 industral techs and 5000 cash, and marched the army off to kill the Pueblo which sit in Texas (which you need to take).

    Careful with the pirates. I reinforced each of my fleets with another galleon and brig, and also sent 2 galleons to each trading spots near Brasil, which makes a bit of cash. Early on, galleons are a very powerful vessel. They are slow, but can take on even 4th rates with a reasonable chance to win. Complement them with brigs and 5th rates, and you'll have a reasonably flexible force.

    I usually send in my brigs on a fast close course with chainshot to dismast, and then let the galleons approach and fire a first dismasting volley, and then switch to regular. Board smaller vessels with brigs, but remember you can switch to grapeshot to make work easier.

    Operating in this manner, I managed to capture 5 pirate ships in the med (mostly fast and light cannoned: xebecs, galleys and such) and then took a couple of militia units and landed them in Oran - it's undefended and it's one of the major Berbery states' ports. And burn it. That'll keep them from producing too many ships in your area. If you get e chance, send in a rake to sabotage stuff, but usually this does the trick for a while.

    The next step was to upgrade city defences in Lombardy, Naples, and Brussels. Keep adding 1 unit per turn to Brussels, but mix it up to get a balanced army. Also, you can stop increasing your Naples garrison at about 6-7 units, about half of them militia, but try and get a full stack again in Milan. Also, recruit some artillery and line infantry in Cuba and begin planning to take over those pirate islands. You neet Trinidad and Tobago for the New Spain mission, plus it's a shorter trip to Curacao than Cuba.

    Also steal, trade, or build universities, but research military tech down to socket bayonets and fire by rank, and at least foot artillery and canister shot.

    Then move the army from Brussels (a whole stack) and park it in the Dutch port: this covers the access bridge to Brussels so they must march past you, at whic point you can let them pass (as you sneak past into Amsterdam). Otherwise, you'll be cutting off all of their trade income so they will sally, and you can beat them piecemeal. When you feel confident Amsteram is almost empty, attack and take it.

    Attack Curacao as you see fit. At this stage, New Spain will join you and you'll have more cash. Recruit another army in Spain in case the brits decide to take the fight to you. Try to make peace with them, but they're quite hard to convince. Just garrison the Netherlands, and let the french fight their navy. They will attack your trade routes (remember I told you to upgrade farms?), so you'll have to send money to France, and increase your american navy and try to pick out the 13 colonies and their american posessions. I also took the opportunity and invaded myself Portugal, incidentally depriving GB of one of their trade partners.

    After that, I decided to wait and eventually gave GB peace after taking over most of their american territories, and a bit of cash. Try to avoid facing their navy. They have an advantage from the beginning of the game, and while you can try and catch up, it's an uphill battle for a while.

    Anyway, 1750 should see you with a bit of cash, a couple of strong armies in America, and at least 4 in Europe, which is more than most nations, and you can pretty much do anything you want. I'm preparing a campaign against the Barbary states and Morocco, just because I want to see those bloody annoying pirates gone...
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  3. #3
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    You start off with a truly terrible monarch. He nets you a lovely -10 to your relations and -2 points of prestige per turn.

    Ahh...ain't it a shame when cousins marry, folks?

    Anyway, your initial situation is, I think, rather grim.

    Nobody likes you, your military is rather weeny, and your budget...well...it ain't so hot.


    My first advice is to scramble for the Ivory Coast trade region. Ivory seems to generally be a very valuable resource, so you want to dominate its trade as much as possible. Dedicate as much cash as you can to getting out those first five Indiamen ASAP, to keep those dirty Anglos and the Dutch from getting their grimy hands on your elephant teeth.

    Your second priority should be keeping an eye on Portugal. They dont like you and, in my campaign, attacked rather quickly. Dont take this as a bad thing, look at the silver lining. You get Portugal out of it.

    At some point the Dutch may offer you Ceylon for the Netherlands. Sounds like a good deal to me. I'm making pretty decent money off the tea and gems. Plus you can build fun units in India, AND use Ceylon as a base for later expansion.

    In the Americas, keep a watchful eye on Florida if you want to keep it. Them natives dont play around. Taking Georgia from them seems to slow them up a bit, though.

    I opted to make Hispaniola my military base, since it has a lower tax income than Cuba, which also provides more trade goods. I'd suggest setting Hispaniola's port to military eventually as well, so as to keep your New World fleet within range of a supply of fresh ships should the need arise.

    And trust me, you'll be glad of it when you can sail up to Trinidad and Tobago with a fleet of 2nd rates and laugh in the face of those pirate galleons.
    Last edited by Monk; 03-13-2009 at 12:01. Reason: language
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  4. #4
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    I've not played as Spain or had a revolution yet, but would it be worth trying to generate one early on? If it can be of course...

  5. #5
    Member Member Polemists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Revoultions are not the easiest thing to generate in the world, even with a unliked leader. You can scale the taxes to full tilt of course, but that does not guarentee you a revoultion, and you may just end up with rebels in many of your provinces. As spain that would be bad, as you can't really reinforce America early on. Plus portugal would probably take advantage of your weakness.

    These are just guesses of course, not to mention you'd take a diplomatic hit of -10 even without your leader as a Const Monarchy do to the fact everyone but Dutch, GB and Poland will remain monarchies for the better part of 50 or 60 years.

  6. #6
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    I suppose my initial summary warrants a re-phrase. Spain's initial military isn't necessarily 'weeny' so much as it is overextended. I imagine if you gathered all of your initial units into a single stack you'd have a pretty decent starting army.

    Oh, also, make sure you disband your military units on Cuba and Hispaniola. You wont be needing them and might as well save on the upkeep.

    In the Americas, I find that the French (or Louisiana, if they haven't attacked you) will pay good money for Cherokee territory. I traded it to them for a ton of technology, and I probably could have gotten a better deal by bargaining. I also sold Kaimuk Territory (however that's spelled. The province north of Cherokee territory) to the British for a good price as well.

    Keeping Florida was well worth it. I'm considering selling off Georgia, but it's a convinient military bastion against any British moves from the north.

    One (dirty) trick with Spain is to let the Pueblo nations overwhelm New Spain and take some of their provinces, allowing you to sweep in and save the day. Mexico alone is worth any effort to get. Two silver mines AND a gold mine will make your king the richest idiot on the planet. I even build him the special palace in Madrid.
    He currently eats off gold plates, with gold utensils, has a gold toilet and a gold-plated monkey named Bobo.
    You know how hard it is to gold-plate a monkey?
    It requires weeks of effort by a skilled monkey-plater. Those guys have to be serious professionals.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Spain

    Cherokee on steroids?
    What I did was waited until the main Cherokee army attacked Florida. They lost the battle due to routing.(2 Firelock armed mobs did join me, so I had extra back up for my other rifle guys.)
    Then I trained up 2 line infantry at Florida, recruited a general and sent them to the Cherokee province northeast of Florida, there were 2 mobs defending which were easily enough routed by charging my general into them and using my line unit guys.
    Now they have about 3 seperate units of bowmen roaming around and I think I should be able to quickly take their other 2 cities and finish them off after building some more forces.

    Anyways, would it be possible to quickly take that Cuacao place for the New Spain mission then get a cease fire with the United Provinces?
    Thanks, Adal8or.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Spain

    I'd suggest experimenting with trading some of your initial provinces on your first turn. I traded Flanders to the Dutch for Ceylon to open up the India theater and to get me out of Northern Europe until I was ready. Yeah you need Flanders for victory, but I think it will be easier to come back and take it than to hold it. The good thing about that move is it forces your army in Flanders to make a tactical retreat to Lombardy, where combined with the stack that starts there, you can take Genoa on your first turn. Have your fleet near Spain sink the Genoa navy right outside Genoa and on your next turn you move the army by boat from Genoa to Corsica and in 3 turns the faction is destroyed. I also traded Florida for Jamaica. I don't want to devote an army to protecting Florida. If England can hold it, great. If not I can come back and take it from the Cherokee when I can afford the army to take it.

  9. #9

    Default AW: Re: Spain

    Quote Originally Posted by Polemists View Post
    Revoultions are not the easiest thing to generate in the world, even with a unliked leader. You can scale the taxes to full tilt of course, but that does not guarentee you a revoultion, and you may just end up with rebels in many of your provinces. As spain that would be bad, as you can't really reinforce America early on. Plus portugal would probably take advantage of your weakness.

    These are just guesses of course, not to mention you'd take a diplomatic hit of -10 even without your leader as a Const Monarchy do to the fact everyone but Dutch, GB and Poland will remain monarchies for the better part of 50 or 60 years.
    Playing as Spain, I went quickly for Republic. And I´d say it´s a good move to get rid of poor Carlos II. Being a republic doesn´t hurt your international relations more than Carlos II.

    In order to provoke the revolution I removed the Jesuit College and the coaching inn in my home province. On one of these build spot I placed a second university. If this alone doesn´t make the people rebellious, set the tax level to maximum and move the garrison out of Madrid.

  10. #10
    Gognard Member MikeV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheogorath View Post
    I Kaimuk Territory (however that's spelled. The province north of Cherokee territory)
    Kaintuck (Kentucky)
    Forums are good for sharing questions, wikis are good for sharing answers:
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  11. #11
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    As previous posters stated you´re spread out and quite weak. Your small fleet is the key, port them immediately or you risk getting them sunk by pirates or Barbary States. Your fleet in Cuba should be moved west and south of the island to avoid being attacked by the pirates to your east. There is another pirate fleet that comes in from the west and 8 out of 10 times attacks you but this one you can beat.
    Since you´re at war with the Cherokee and your garrison in Florida is weak I usually trade it for Windward Islands with the French and let them deal with them. Bring troops from Flanders and Lombardy home to Spain. Leave Flanders weak to invite Holland to attack you. This way you can take Dutch Guyana and most importantly Curacao (mission) from them. Trade is the key so I build I.M in EVERY port I can on every turn I can and later I add Galleons to each trade scene. I also demolish all shipyards but the one in Spain to further bolster trade. Build farms, wine and... some mine, I think, some militia then you´re out of money this turn.
    First target: Pirates in the Caribean. Do some island-hopping with your small fleet and take Leeward isles and Trinidad Tobago (mission). Now you rule the caribean and can crank out I.M like mad. This is done by 1703, safely. Next targets: Hollands holdings, both D.Guyana and Curacao. You can also start to move on the Barbary states and Morocco with your armies from Iberia, Flanders and Italy. More ports, more I.M and close to home and Tunisia is a nice staging-point to protect your holdings in Italy that you have left weak intentionally. Italian states always attacks me sooner or later. This lets me get them as a protectorate. Further bolster your army in the caribean and ship them to Texas (mission). The fastest I´ve taken Trinidad Tobago, Curacao and Texas to aquire New Spain is 1708.
    Often Savoy will attack France. If you can spare the troops Take them out because sometimes I´ve succeded in trading Savoy for F.Guyana with gold and gems ;) I always honor my alliance with France no matter what. They act as a nice buffer-zone both in America and Europe. Holland has Flanders as a mission and is desperate to obtain it. If you have beaten them you should be getting offerings to swap it for Ceylon. When I´m ready I do so and immediately declare war on them taking back Flanders and taking Netherlands (mission) and this gets you a staging-point, nicely developed, in India. If you don´t want it you can always trade it for the Brittish holdings in the caribean, both Jamaica and Bahamas will often be tossed in to the deal. Sometimes Portugal DoW´s you and I usually take them out or make them a protectorate but they cede Goa in India. If you keep it, and Ceylon, you have a nice new theater opening up.

    So now you have a super strong position in Iberia/ Africa, you hold all of the caribean and all of central- and south America. Where you go from here is up to you. Good luck!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Spain

    There's another benefit to having a revolution ASAP for Spain. I think mine went down in 1703 or 1704, and if you left Madrid unguarded the rebel force stack you command takes minimal losses and you get a decent sized stack for free when you take the capitol. With that stack and the army already in Spain you have a big enough force to take Morocco and Portugal before they have time to match the size of your army.

  13. #13
    Member Member mbrasher1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Spain is spread out, with a lot of valuable and vulnerable territories.

    But you also have the ability to benefit from turmoil in many different theaters of war.

    Major theaters that Spain can, and should dominate, include:

    -- Italy
    -- India
    -- North America
    -- Caribbean
    -- Ivory Coast and Brazilian trade

    Selling Flanders for Ceylon is a good move which sets up the conquest of India. It also strengthens your forces in Lombardy to take out Genoa (Genoa and the Italian states will eventually attack you, so you should be prepared). The Italian powers are Catholic states that you can get pretty docile pretty quickly.

    North America is a great plum. Attacking Georgia puts you in contact with the 13 colonies, the Cherokees and Louisiana. Often, the 13 colonies or Louisiana will attack Spain, which usually results in picking off a province or two (but no war with their protector). Getting the cherokee territory and Kaintuck are excellent, as you get good income.

    The Caribbean theater offers lightly defended pirate bases, as well as lightly defended plantation islands of the Dutch and British, should it come to war over getting Curacao (it usually does, since the Dutch usually do not sell).

    Once you have completed the mission to have New Spain join your state, Spain is unbeatable.

    Spain gets decent trade income, but you really cannot and should not try to compete with the Dutch/British navy. Your navy needs to focus on getting trade slots, and stealing THOSE from the Dutch/British.

    Also, the Spanish get lots of plantations, which are expensive, but pay for themselves very fast. If you look at the income screen, you will see that you get tax income from plantations, as well as trade income; plus you often get a bonus of extra units of sugar or whatever. So a basic plantation costing 1250 will usually pay for itself in 2-4 turns (1-2 years). No other land investment is so profitable. The only other investment that returns better are Indiamen. You should build as many as you can and monopolize the trade slots as best you can. Indiamen take several years to get to their spot, and two turns to build, but they can return their entire cost in 1-4 turns.

    The Spanish mission seems the easiest to complete. They are all a one turn march from the Caribbean, and are lightly defended. And you get GREAT territories. Mexico alone is worth it, but you get others also.

    As a side note, I find the Spanish slow to get going unless you have money to invest. So I usually disband the useless pikemen, the Cuba force, and the entire force in Spain (unless you plan to attack Morocco early). Since Portugal and Morocco are 2 turns from Madrid, you can build a decent force of line infantry which can easily see off their forces.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    In Spain I found my approach much different than most of the above.

    I did immediately sent the fleet with the Galleon to Ivory Coast right away. Spain is so short on funds but what is worse is that almost all regions are declining in wealth. I exempted most areas from taxes to encourage growth. I attacked the pirate fleet in the Caribbean on the first turn also and captured some trade ships to send to Brazil.

    I built a few troops in Florida and took Georgia from the Cherokee. After that they were willing to make peace. I exempt Georgia from taxes also. Most have such small tax income you are better off with 4 times the growth in wealth and a population boost then you are with the small amount of money you get.

    Then it is more about growing the economy and securing alliances and trade than about war. The improvements New Spain may make don’t cost you anything and you get half their money anyway.

    Once the Cherokee were at peace I worked on the economy and built up in Flanders and used the troops from Georgia as a basis for an army in the Caribbean. The Netherlands and their American possessions were the prizes I wanted.

    I secured military access in France and set to work building an army of about 30 units.

    Not wishing to go to war with GB I picked on the UP’s other ally, Austria, and a country you have to fight at some point anyway. UP fell in one turn but it requires a long term garrison. All other regions turned rebel or pirate. The same turn I attacked Curacao. Then sent the fleet on to Dutch Gahanna before the French could move on it. And then back to Trinidad. Then it was more a matter of building up troops to take Texas. It is no pushover and you may want one and a half to two stacks. Any leftovers from Europe should go to taking the Leeward Islands and finishing off the pirates.

    None of that is going to give you a strong economy but changing the pirate shipyards to ports and one of your two in Spain also will give you a boost. Avoiding minor conflicts that can turn into major disasters is also important. Trade with anyone and everyone you possibly can. Capturing Ceylon is not a bad idea once you have the means to go that far, but in all likelihood that will be in the second half of the game.

    The Spanish position is also handicapped in the Tech fields. You have one school and no places ready or suitable for others. Your one Gentleman in old and may not live to see the first development.

    I had to forgo military research to concentrate on economic benefits. That meant social and then farming techs. Capturing the UP gives you another and at some point you may be able to build some in the Americas. But you will still be playing catch up with most Major Factions. By exempting most regions from taxes you will also have towns to build schools and ports. Gentlemen are still slow to come and everyone should be used for research. Getting them killed trying to steal techs or in duels is a luxury you don’t have.

    Georgia gets only one port and it needs to be a trade port so that you get the cash for the plantations. San Juan also must be a trade port to get money from the plantation there. Until those ports develop upgrading the plantations there is a waste of money. With most of the rest you are better off with fishing ports to speed up population growth.

    At this point the only Region you need to take to win should be Austria. At least if you choose the Prestige game. Not an easy win by any means, but it can be done.

    In going to war with Austria, Savoy became an enemy and a valuable one for building an army to take Austria…from who ever may own it by that time. (in my case it was Prussia) The grate number of Rakes generated by Spain are at last an asset in finding out what you must fight and building up.

    I will leave it at that…most of the rest will just be icing for the cake, but you will still need prestige and that will come from buildings and techs.
    Last edited by Fisherking; 04-11-2009 at 21:37.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Spain

    Ok when playing GB, UP, France or Spain, the key to sucses is NOT to play by the script. DON'T go to war whith GB or UP until you can win fast. Don't fight in Europa until you are ready.Don't fight the pirates navy, instead take their to islands. You will need only 7-9 units of colonial line infantry foer the job. Send all your ships to blokade the trade spots from turn one. Build only galeons. You can build them aniwheare, they can do the trade and fight a fourth rate one on one. You realy don't need shipyards early on, so consider turning all of them in to trade ports. You will have more port setlements ready later. When I play Spain on VH/VH my last problem is the money. In fact i forget about this problem after turn 3. Give Hispaniola to GB for aliance, Flanders to France and afer that pay the UP 4- 5000 for aliance to. Have a peace with the Cheroky for a 3-4000 on turn 2. Build four line infantries in Madrid and go to war with Maroco and the Barbary states right awey. Ally whith just about anybody.After you kill the pirates and conquer North Africa (afcource whithout Egipth) it is all done. By 1715 i had 70% of the trade stots in Brasil, Ivory coast and Madagaskar, and i am making 40K per turn. And i have a full stack armyes anywhere. Note that I still don't have New Spain. I could, i kiled the Pueblo people, and UP wold give mi Curasao for Cuba, some other island and 100k, but what is the point. To make 100K per turn? Portugal attacked me around 1707 but GB dekeares war on them. I hade to full armyes in Spain and one in Maroco, so i kiled them in a turn. With enough cash you can buye, and build just about anithing. Lower taxes and everybody loves you, syties grow and you build new schools, seminaries and so on. Build four astronomies and you will have all the jentlemen you need. Whit 3 universities in Spain, Portugal and Sicily research is not a problem. Buye tech and respect and have fun. When you get bored send 7-8 armyes to UP and UK and end this. Or just trade for the teritories you want and whait for the 1799 to come.

    P.S Note that this is not a blitz campain. I only took 8 teritories and i am all set untill 1799.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Spain

    I don't really agree with all I have read about the spanish here, espcially trading flanders with the Dutch witch seems to be a nonsense to me as long as flanders is an ideal base for later European conquest plus the fact that flanders and Amsterdam are in the list for the long campain.

    Here is a little resume of the game I have start with the spanish (VH/VH). After some unsuccesfull attemps, I finaly found an efficiency strategy. I 'm currently in 1713 and I have completed the mission to gains all the colony, I have 3 full stack for attacking (2 in america and one in Europe) and gaining around 15k/18k per turn.

    As stated earlier, one of the problem of the spain is the potential dangers / wars on a bunch of territory. The best way to defends them is ... let other faction defends it for you ! Diplomacy will be the key for you success.

    To defends Lombardia, sign alliance with Venician an Italian state. This should cool down Genoa and Savoie. Also send your European fleet near a french fleet so that Genoa won't be tempted to attack It. Lombardia as never been attacked in those time and I only get the starting army there + one militia unit.

    For the flanders, propose protectorat to Westphalia (Rhénanie). This will give a nice little boost to your income and if you are lucky, this will give you a war with the UP without having to suffer piracy from the GB. With Alliance with Westphalia and France, the flanders should be an esay prey for the PU (no attack till 1713).

    Also keep proposing alliance and trade agreedment to the portugal, they will finaly accept (after 2 or 3 turn) so You'll choose when to attack them instead of the opposite and a trade agreedment to moroco. Althought this trade agreedment won't last long, It's a good way to slower there attack. Don't send your priest in moroco, this would cause the war directly.

    Floridia is your main problem, It will be under regular attack from the cherokee plus you can't really afford to take them down too early or louisiane will declare war to you witch mean loosing your precious alliance with the french so just be patient and defend the capital. Don't invest in the towns, who will be regularly raided and don't send your priest in the cheroke territory, just assure to keep a suffisant stack to defends the fort. Although I simulate a lot of battle (outdated computer :( ), I recommand you play those defensive figth as long as playing it will put all the cherokee cavaly off the play, witch is not the case whith simulation so you'll have less loose, need less troops and spend less to rebuild the unit after a fight.

    On your fisrt turn, recruit 2 units in madrid and send all troops one the spanish territory to gibraltar, the aim is to take out moroco quickly. I personnaly waited until I get the first military tec and a Half stack was enough to take them. Destroy the insdustrial building to build a church (so your armie can move sooner, as long as you don't have dragon's unit yet). After moroco, You should go on for portugal where a 3/4 stack should be enought to take them down. Those 2 are the only target until you finish your mission and the money start to flow.

    In america, recruit one militia in Hispania, send your fleet to cuba, embark the 2 units there and go to hispania. Also recruit 2 commercial fleet (cuba and hispania) It will take some time to send them but the benefit are worst it plus the escort will be done will you fix the troop you use to attack tobago.

    At turn 3 you should have 5 troops to take tobago, and while you refill them use your fleet to escort your commercial ship.

    at turn 6/7 Attack curacao, it should be an esay pray and you'll have a nice barrack to build a full stack and heading to Nation pueblo. If your are lucky, you'll already be at war with them thanks to the protectorat of the westphalia. If not, they will quickly accept a peace agreedment. Hurry to jamaica and take it (also poor defence, 5/6 units is enought) and sign peace with the GB (plus a nice tec ^^). You'll also be at War with Austria but this a note a problem, just raid there commercial line, they, on the opposite, can't hurt you thank to your alliance with the venitian. All the while, you should keep recruiting for you army and get rid of the pirate thread so you can count on regular trade income.

    After 15/18 turn, you should have a full stack manily made of crapy militia and line men to take out nation pueblo, this will be a hard fight (nearly 2 stack for the opponents). If you don't feel confident in the battle, you can always try to lur them by attacking the infrastructure so one of the stack should leave the defense of the capital.

    When this done, you should be in position to rule the world ! You have a full stack in nation pueblo, more or less a half stack in floridia and nearly a full one in portugal / spain plus great income. You can now choose to send one of the American Army in india to take Ceylan while you european army march to Amsterdam or goes to an Italian conquest while you finaly give the cherokee what that deserve.

    For the tec tree, I choose to go like that : First military tec (so you get a nice advantage in your first fight vs portugal and moroco), Jenny (4 of your possesions in Europe have a textile building so it's non expensive way to increase your income), then go for the first farming lvl tec, square (?) formation (so you can now take out cavalery easaly), Emperialism and then physyocratie (as long as you won't have a lot of money before reunification, there is no need for an early research of physiocraty).

    The important think is to keep an alliance with the french witch is the main defence again Genoa and his fleet (If you let your european fleet with allies nearby Genoa will probably attack you) and the UP for the flanders. If the Alliance is broken, you'll be in trouble.

  17. #17
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Spain can be very easy if you make some good diplomatic starts. I exchanged Flanders for Curacao. This gave me one region to defend less and I gained one that I needed for my mission to get New Spain. Your army is now teleported back to Lombardy. If you get an alliance with Rome (the Italian states) in exchange for Lombardy that army is again teleported to Naples. Your European possessions are now secure. France defends Spain from the north and Rome defends Naples. There are still Portugal and Morocco. These two can be taken out quickly. Morocco always attacks very soon after the campaign starts and Portugal sooner or later. I took Portugal out and made peace with the Brits. Now you can concentrate on getting New Spain. After you have acquired New Spain you are unstoppable.
    Tosa Inu

  18. #18
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Quote Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse View Post
    Spain can be very easy if you make some good diplomatic starts. I exchanged Flanders for Curacao. This gave me one region to defend less and I gained one that I needed for my mission to get New Spain.
    Good advice although I think better can be done in v1.3: Trade Florida and Flanders with France for French Guyana (and anything else they will give you). I don't think it's a great idea to strengthen the UP as you will be at war with them sooner rather than later.

    Your forces from Florida and Flanders will, as Mr Alphonse said, be teleported to Lombardy and Cuba. This is essential for the consolidation and expanison of your empire in Europe and America:

    1.Pool your forces from Cuba, Florida and Santo Domingo and use them as an amphibious island hopping army to complete the new Spain mission.

    2.Using the combined forces that start in Lombardy and are teleported from Flanders, attack the Papal states' army in the field, following the (victorious) engagement up immediately by besieging & taking Rome. If you ally with Genoa, Savoy and Venice, Italy will now be safe and can be developed (in the longer term) into an industrial zone.

    As to the defense of Spain and Gibraltar, the threat from Morocco can be successfully contained through control of the straights by a fleet anchored in gibralar's harbour. The fleet will also be in an excellent position to intercept Moroccan and Barbary galleys out to raid your shipping from Seville (which I would recommend converting to a trade port as early as possible). If you ever lose this fleet or move it away from Gibraltar, Morocco will cross the straights and attack Gibraltar, leading to un-neccessary complications on your main land.

    As your starting forces in Spain are but a handful, Portugal are therefore your greatest threat and need the earliest response. You should have the resources to spend 2-3 turns training a force of line infantry and cavalry (I'd take at least 6 regiments of cavalry as the portugese armies focus on recruitment of Miquelets and other light infantry) with which you can then enage their army in the field or, if possible, sneak round either to the North or south and storm Lisbon in the same turn on which you declare war.

    Once oyu have contained/conquered Portugal and the Papal states, are picking the caribean islands off 1 by 1 and have a fleet parked in Gibraltar guarding the land-bridge to Morocco you are basically safe and can concentrate your resources on economic development.

    At some point, the UP will declare war on you or you them, this is fine as you don't have a close border with them except in Guyana, where a force of Militia and Melee indians will be enough to capture the Dutch province there.

    Taking Trinidad, Curacao and Texas are easy enough, although you might have to sit your troops down a bit after each capture to ease discontent. Be wary of the Plains nation attacking New Spain in Mexico, or of New Spain declaring war on you (for reasons that i don't truly understand). Either way, remember that you can be at war with New Spain and still complete the mission by simply owning Texas, Trinidad and Curacao.

    Back in Europe, In the most machiavellian of ways, you should be able to depend on the UP taking Flanders from France (providing you swapped it with them) at a time convenient enough for you to march your forces north from newly quelled Lisbon and/or Rome. You should then be able to recapture your Hapsburg inheritance (Flanders and Holland) one by one, leaving you with only Morocco and Austria as territories required for victory.

    Personally, I'd concentrate first on Morocco and then roll through the Barbary States (maybe leave libya as a buffer zone between you and the Ottomans). Only seek to get involved in central Europe, through Austria when you control the Western and central Mediteranean -it can get messy there between Austria, Prussia, Ottomans, Poland, Russia and even Sweden or Courland!

    As a fun side-show, you could also claim Ceylon, as this is an ideal position from which to cover trade and escorts in madagascar and the East Indies. I'd be wary of adventuring into mainland India unless you are spoiling for a fight or you can play Mysore, Mughals and Marathas off each other to your advantage.

  19. #19
    Member Member Zarky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    What I've observed about New Spain quest line is that when you take Texas, New Spain declares war on you since you are their only actual neighbouring faction. That's why I take Texas only after I have the rest.
    Homo Sapiens non Urinat in Ventum - the wise man does not piss against the wind.

  20. #20
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarky View Post
    What I've observed about New Spain quest line is that when you take Texas, New Spain declares war on you since you are their only actual neighbouring faction. That's why I take Texas only after I have the rest.
    Thanks, that sounds plausible. Because I've seen the Plains Nation capture Mexico in other games, where they then destroy all its improvements, i tend to be more aggressive towards them.

    Holding Texas, whilst capturing the other mission regions, then leaves you at risk of attack by New Spain. On my last game in v1.3, although New Spain DoW'd, they never followed up with any aggressive millitary action -which was good for me...

  21. #21
    Member Member Zarky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    On my last game they got aggressive on me, I reloaded turn before they DoW me and gave it to them and later bought it back with some caribbean islands. Funny thing is that once they controlled Texas, they didn't DoW France who owned Lower Lousiana.
    Maybe keeping medium sized army destroying all Pueblo armies in Texas might work? That would ensure that Pueblos don't capture Mexico and that New Spain won't DoW you too early, but it would cost min. 1000 to upkeep army large enough to defeat them.
    Only problems I would have had with New Spain DoWing me is that I didn't have a single ship close enough to prevent them sinking my ship which had units going to Curacao.
    Homo Sapiens non Urinat in Ventum - the wise man does not piss against the wind.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    Each patch changes the situation. Sometimes beyond recognition.

    1.3.1 has better economics but the diplomacy is still insane and now the AI seldom makes peace, no matter what is offered.

    Pirates attack trade spots and have strong fleets, so don’t go sending ships to trade theaters until they are a strong fleet or you take out the pirates.

    With Spain the fist turn is very important. If you only build a few buildings, a few troops and hit end turn, you are hosed. You will lose what you have in Italy and giving it away is wasteful of your meager resources. Selling them won’t get you much, particularly in the early, early game. Diplomacy works better. But be prepared to spend the little cash you have on it. Some agreements can be had cheap, but others may cost you a couple of thousand.

    Spain 1700

    The worst leader in the game. The cabinet and the ones waiting in the wings are all bad but with a little readjustment they can improve.

    Diplomatically you need alliances, especially with the Italian States and Genoa. Venice, a trade partner can also be brought on board with military access which you will need when you go for Austria. I made the Italian States and Westphalia protectorates, also Morocco and made an ally of Portugal. An agreement with Savoy is problematic as it will go to war with France at some point.

    Without the agreements you will be at war with all of them in a very short time. Even though I spent every penny and only built two units in Florida, it should be worth it. Most don't get involved in wars, other than with Spain or Austria, which is good. Portugal my go to war in India but that is acceptable as the trade from there is very iffy at best.

    Your main threat will be the Dutch and their Ally the British, and at some point Austria, which is usually a war in name only until Lombardy is threatened.

    Your fleets are only four ships, and not the best either. A galleon and a brig in the Med, and a fifth rate and a sloop off Cuba. The last two are going to fight the Pirates on the first turn, but let them come to you. You can’t get to a port and if you are lucky you might take a prize, but if they attack you, you can at least out run them.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  23. #23
    The Red Tezcatlipoca Member Xipe Totec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spain

    (V. 1.3)

    I found a useful opening tactic to be swapping Flanders for French Guiana. Immediately building as much native melee infantry there as you can allows you to take Dutch Guiana when the inevitable war breaks out. I used a stack of these guys to take out the pirates, Curacao and Tejas on the cheap, whilst my proper infantry did the hard fighting against Morocco and Portugal. France is a useful ally as it protects your northern border in Europe and after you take Tejas they can also protect you from the Cherokees. I gave Florida to France also at the start as it is untenable without a major early investment you cannot afford.

    I gave Milan to the Italian States in return for protectorate. It has little future potential, unlike Naples which is otherwise hard to defend, and can be developed into a cash cow. This worked after a fashion, but I had to keep sending a stack in to bail them out when they were attacked by first Venice, then Austria and finally Genoa. The latter were curiously weakened by an early naval invasion by a half stack of GB which sailed on a large fleet from England directly to Corsica and conquered it directly! It does seem in character for the fervently Roman Catholic Spanish to protect the Pope anyway.

    I have found Spain's early game interesting, yet manageable provided that you focus on the security of Espana and fulfilling the New Spain mission first and foremost. After you take out Morocco and Portugal, and get New Spain it becomes a stroll because you don't need many large armies and can grow and develop your huge potential in the Americas while largely staying out of the European quagmires.
    Last edited by Xipe Totec; 08-07-2009 at 16:25.
    'I go forth about to destroy ... I am seen in the golden water; I shall appear unto mortals; I shall strengthen them for the words of war!'

    Hymn of the High Priest of Xipe Totec.

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