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Thread: United Provinces (the Dutch)

  1. #31

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'm playing world domination. I need 40 provinces, including my capital only.

  2. #32
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadKow View Post
    Yesterday i tried the crush New Spain approach, and it certainly went very well. Up to a point.

    I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.

    On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.

    My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.

    Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.
    I used to think that remaining move points affected my ability to intercept, but now I have noticed that enemy armies sometimes walk right past my armies who have full points on end turn...its really irritating when one unit razes three settlements when you have defensive troops everywhere

    On the crush New Spain approach either hit Flanders very, very early after Spain declares war on you, or just play defensive at your capital and wait for spain to make a foolhearty attack. Keep a rake or priest around the Paris region to see if Spain is sending up and armies to reinforce Flanders, but they will likely not be able to afford it if you can manage to take their southern american holdings, especially mexico, thats a huge money machine. If Britain joins the war with you use their nearby ships to back you up in naval battles and head down the atlantic to blockade the spanish ports. This chokes Spain to the point that the only thing they can afford to do is make stacks of guerilla troops and wait for morocco to attack
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  3. #33
    Member Member Kulgan's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    The AI seems to go for your capital only when there is ( almoast ) no defending forces in my games. Is this the case for you as well?

  4. #34
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I've started another campaign (long, 40 provinces to win), and am playing very diffferently to how i did in the report at the start of this thread.

    Swapping Mughals for Ottomans as trade partners early on is going well so far.

    Have complete monopoly over trade in the East Indies and overbearing majorities in all three other trade areas. (Spam Fluyts & merchantmen in your first turns).

    Considered appropriating Westphalia and then Hannover, but their starting armies are as good as - if not better than your force in Amsterdam.

    Instead invaded new-andalucia (with 6 line inf) and took Flanders (with the start-up army) on the turn following the declaration of war.

    After taking Flanders, I made peace with Spain -so as to focus on new-spain alone, but this hasn't panned out as I'd hoped as new-spain has now been incorporated into Spain proper, who i'm still at peace with.

    Pirates next i guess...

    On trade, i've found it hard to secure trade rights with Austria in the past. They are certainly a more reluctant ally than britain. In my previous game, i had to shell out 10k to get the deal (which pays off quickly) -anyone get a deal for less?

    Stealing tech from the german states is a fruitful strategy, there are about 4 school/colleges within a turn's march, so it's easy to move about and cherry pick.

    Does anyone know of a way to increase a gentlemen's likelyhood of succeeeding at tech stealing? I've not yet noticed an apptitude/trait that increases with instances of academic kleptomania...

  5. #35

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I played a trading game with the UP (N/N). My very first move was to split the fleet in the East Indies in order to appropriate three trade posts and free up the three warships for the Americas. My early strategy was to take out the Pirate Islands as soon as possible, they continually blockade the trade theatres otherwise. Once I had the Pirates out of the game I left the Americas alone for a while. My other early colonial move was to build an army in Ceylon and pop round to take Mysore. Mysore is a hugely wealthy territory and, along with Ceylon and Dutch Guyana, gives you control of a goodly percentage of the world gem trade (go De Beers!). This, too, was the extent of my early Indian campaign.

    Europe became my main sphere of expansion. I avoided war with Spain or France in the early stages and, in fact, abandoned Austria as an ally when they went to war with Prussia. Instead, I paid for trade very early with both Westphalia and Hannover. I also built troops and sailed them down to take Morocco. This, it turned out, was an excellent move because it gave me a useful port from which to build Fluyts and send them straight into the trade theatres. Additionally, Morocco is one of the regions that furnish you with the Dahomey Amazons (if you pre-ordered SE from Amazon, that is)It also allowed me to sweep east through the Barbary States. These may not be the richest territories but it does leave you at peace with everyone and able to concentrate on economic development and technological research. If, as I did, you also then broker a trade agreement with the Ottoman Empire, it prevents the Barbary scum from cutting off that trade.

    My next thrust was to occupy the Italian States, Venice, Malta, Genoa and Savoy, in that order and in quick succession. You may have noticed that my policy has been, up to this point, one of picking off the single-region states. This is very successful because most of them are devoid of allies and there is little comeback to you for your attacks.

    Throughout this time I was continually building Indiamen and Fluyts in Ceylon (for the East Indies), Mysore (for Madagascar), Dutch Guyana (for Brazil) and Morocco (the Ivory Coast). Trade for the Dutch is huge, I soon had at three full stack fleets in each of the trade theatres. Each fleet of 20 ships was bringing me between 3,500 and 6,500 per turn, depending on the theatre, which translated to a total of about 55k per turn overall.

    At this point I turned my attentions elswhere. Sweden, to be exact. They happened to be at war with my sole ally, the British. This left me free to sweep in and take them out in the course of about four turns, shortly followed by Denmark. Then Courland came under the cosh, which brought Poland-Lithuania into conflict with me. By this time, of course, I waws exceedingly rich, highly advanced and well armed. My Northern troops systematically destroyed the Poles whilst my Southern Armies began to push upwrds for my conquest of Austria. They met neatly in the middle.

    By 1740 or so, I was in possession of over 30 territories. I had military spending of around 95K per turn and I was still reaping profits of over 130k per turn. The rest was simple. Take out the French in Paris and Strasbourg. This led to the emergence of Quebec. Next, in a single turn, all the troops who had taken out the central European states took out the Spanish in Lombardy, Sardinia, Naples etc. (Portugal had already taken out Spain itself). This led to the emergence of Gran Colombia, Mexico and, strangely, the re-emergence of the Pirates. By 1750, I had well over 40 territories, all research was complete and I still hadn't expanded in India or the Americas.
    Last edited by Frankenbeasley; 03-19-2009 at 21:53. Reason: edited for readability

  6. #36

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    My opening strategy for playing as the Dutch on H/H.

    I try to use the strategy of having quick short war, where i attack quickly and then sue for peace. It seems that the AI have a soft spot for peace when you have taken over one of their larger regions, esp their capital. The strategy of ignoring the outlaying troops and go straight for the capital then sue for peace works great.

    So...

    Aside from the war, try to pump out as many indieman/fluytes as possible to secure the trade spots. They provide you with good source of income and denies other nations. I upgraded the mines and plantations first, ahead of other building, us they generally produce more money.
    Also i paid Hanover and Westphalia for trade deals.

    1st Dutch/Spanish war

    Take Flanders with starting army in Netherlands (turn 1 or 2).
    Build up a small army (4-6 line infantry) in the island above New-Andalucía and take it by turn 4.
    Sue for peace peach with both. It seems that New Spain soon joins Spain after that.

    War against the Pirates
    Take out the 2 pirate islands. Take out one above the French island first as it is very lightly defended, whilst building up more troops. After a few turns, send the original force (back to full strength), plus new troops and take Trinidad Tobago. Remember to have ships in other trade theaters take over the new slots vacated by the pirates before other nations grab it.

    1st Dutch Franco War
    By this stage, i think about 1710, France have taken over New France. I have built up a bit over a stack of troops in brussels, plus 2 small army (6-8 units each) in south America - one on the border French Guyana and the other loaded into in ships off that other French island. I waited for the French to have some of the troops away from Paris to declare war. The two French regions in Americas fell straight away. The Brussels stack first took the keep north of Paris (defended by only 4 units) and march straight onto Paris (6 units) and took it. Immediately sue for peace with France and Spain (who joined as allies) and they accept.

    With France in my hands, i paid for trade deals with savory, Genoa.

    2nd Dutch Franco War
    After the resistance in Paris died down in Paris (3-4 turns) . I marched my stack from Paris to border of the last French region. Paris is relieved by more troops from Brussels/Amsterdam. The next turn, i swiftly finished off the French. Since Spain also joined the war i took Puerto Rico that turn as well. With French gone, the Spanish accepted peace as well.

    I built up the new regions I’ve captured over the next few turns. in the mean time the Spanish kept offering to exchange regions, mostly for my New-Andalucía.

    2nd Dutch Spanish War
    One turn suddenly, the Spanish offered to trade 5 regions (New Mexico, Florida, Cuba, Sardinia and Lambady) for France (the region), I accepted. I was keen on the these American possessions. Once again I immediately declared war on Spain and took back Paris. After also taking out a Spanish fleet or 2 in the trade theaters, I once again sued for peace, thus ending the 2nd Spanish war.

    With Lambady not garrisoned and unable to recruit decent troops there, I gave it to Savoy in return for becoming my protectorate. In the mean time, a slow simmering war between the British and Sweden has been raging over the last 8-9 turns. I prepared for an invasion of Norway (Denmark lost it).

    1st Dutch Swedish War
    I sailed a nearly full stack to Norway (lightly defended) and took it the next turn with small losses. The stack then moved towards Stockholm whilst ignoring all the towns and troops. I was able to get to Stockholm with a few smaller army chasing me and took the city under their noses (despite heavy losses). With the capital fallen, the Swedes accept peace and withdraw all of their troops. I also managed to get a few techs in the deal too. In hindsight, i should have asked for tech all the other times i took ppl's capital.

    So at this stage the year is about 1720. And i am preparing another quick war with the Spanish, whilst also looking for a opportune time to take Brandenburg from the Prussian, who are at war with Austria. I have 20k income after expenses per turn. Things are looking good so far =)

  7. #37
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'm still learning the game but I have learned enough now to have a good grasp of how trade and the economy works, which is the hardest part of ETW IMO. The military tactics arent that hard. Certainly different from past TW games but not hard to figure out and execute on the battle field. My UP campaign is only played on N/N and on 'Long' so I dont have to rush. My description below will be in a general talk and light on details. I didnt record dates and take screen shots. Sorry.

    In my UP campaign I'm doing some things backwards compared to others here. The main problem is that you basically have three theatres of war to deal with. The Americas, Europe, and India. Trying to do all three at once is difficult so I decided to do one at a time basically, at least in the beginning.

    Opening Moves: I decided to build up my trade and economy first. I tend to turtle in my games rather than blitz so I started building India Men (IM) ships and get them to the trade nodes as quickly as possible. At first I just put one IM ship on as many nodes as possible because they fill up fast. Once I had that part done I added a second, third, so forth to each node. While I was doing this I built up my farms and industry and my ports and cities. I also stayed out of wars with other nations so I could get as much trade dollars as possible coming in.

    India: After I got a healthy trade and economy going I had to decide where to attack first. Some people go for Flanders first but I didnt want to war with Spain and France just yet. The pirates in the Americas arent worth much neither so I decided to go for the most bang for my buck. India. Originally I wanted to side with the Marathas and war on the Mughals but the Marathas refused to ally. The Mughals however were happy to ally with me so it was decided I would war on southern India first. I built a small army in Ceylon and attacked southern India. I skirted around Mysore at first and went east and north. About this time The Portuguese colony west of Mysore rebelled. Apparently Spain took out Portugal so I sailed an army up the coast and took it. This was a blessing because now I didnt have to worry about a war with Portugal and the consquences of that.

    Mysore: Mysore isnt an easy territory to take head on. They build up an army and build up fast. A full stack in their capitol and a 3/4 stack near the former Portugal Colony border. I used a two prong attack to deal with them. With a full stack in the former Portuguese Colony and a small stack of about four units to the southeast in the former Marathas colonies I started my campaign. I used my small stack to invade eastern Mysore hoping to pull one of the Mysore armies away from my main stack. Sure enough it worked. I got lucky and their 3/4 stack moved east and left the way open to the Mysore capitol. Now I only had to beat their main army at the capitol. In one battle I captured the Mysore capitol and destroyed their faction. I then rolled north and east and captured the last remaining Marathas territories without any problems.

    Mughals: I spent a few turns repairing my damaged army and building up my newly conquored territories and its econmy. The Mughals were still allied to me but now wanting to trade tech for Mysore. Well, I wanted the entire Indian sub-continent for myself so I invaded and pushed north and then northeast into Mughal lands. After I conquored the Marathas I built the smaller of my two armies into a full stack and moved one army up the western coast and one army up the eastern side. It was a fairly easy conquest but there was some really good battles since the Mughals build some fast stacks if you give them time but my troops were the better quality. Basically it was attack a territory, resupply the troops with more men, and then move onto the next territory. Once all of India was mine I again worked on building up its economy. I left the Persians alone. They are no threat. I made sure to replace the Mughal and Marathas churches with my Protestant ones. It speeds up acceptance of my Dutch rule.

    Note: Once you control all of India you will be making some serious money through taxes and mainly trade. If you are playing a faction and want to make serious money India is it! Take it and you can fund any war you want if you can control the shipping lanes.

    Pirates: I now decided to take out the pirates. They werent a major headache for me this go round so I wasnt in a hurry to take them out but now their time had come. I sailed my two india armies to their two island territories and showed them what real trained soldiers can do. They didnt stand a chance against my men and cannons. Once they were dealt with I packed up my armies and sailed them to Europe.

    North Africa: Now I needed to pick another fight and again I elected to leave the Americas and Europe to avoid wars and keep the trade money flowing in. I read North Africa was a good place to take since its easy to take and gives you a place to invade the Meditteranean from. At the time Savoy and Northern Italy looked intriguing to me so I needed to invade and gain a base to attack from. Morrocco was easy to take. I sailed my two Indian Armies from the Carribean. One I sent to my home territory to get ready to take Flanders and one I invaded Morrocco with. From Morrocco I just moved east to Tripoli. It was a land battle and the Barbary Corsairs are more of a pirate naval type faction. The main problem with them is getting them to accept your rule. Each territory rebelled once on me and I had to kill their rebel army that sprouted up. Tunis had a good size army but after a single fight I vanquished them. Of course there was a rebellion but I defeated that army too. I easily took Tripoli after that. Again I took time to build the new territories economies. I replaced their old Muslim churces with my protestant ones. This quelled the rebellions for good it seems.

    Europe: Now I had to decide what to do next. I didnt want to take on Spain and France just yet nor did I want to take on Savoy like I thought I might want to. So after I got both my armies onto Dutch homeland I invaded Rhineland and Hanover. One big battle invasion decided their fate. One army into Rhineland and one army into Hanover. After a quick resupply of men I sent my army in Rhineland into Wurttemburg and captured it. Again took a couple turns to build up economy and resupply troops.

    Spain: Okay, now I had to decide who and what to attack next. I considered Denmark but Sweden beat me to it and they had a full stack and a half stack at the capitol so i considered it not worth the trouble. Spain was the more obvious choice. I never fought against Spain before so wasnt sure about them. I know they had some good size army stacks in their homeland and they had one in Flanders and two more full stacks in Brittany. What they were doing in Brittany on French soil is beyond me but they were just sitting there watching ships go by. I saw them when I sailed my armies back to UP. I sent a spy to watch them. France was what I was really worried about. According to others posting here France can be bought off. I just wasnt sure if it would work. France has a large army with stacks everywhere. They also have a very large navy. If they failed to be bought off I was going to be in some deep doo-doo.

    So I took one army and attacked Flanders. It was not a large Spanish army. 6-8 units at the time. Of course France declared war on me too. Just what worried me. But I managed to buy France off. 50,000 for a peace treaty with France. That India trade sure pays for some nice things! This now left me with only Spain to deal with. After losing Flanders Spain cant really get to me in Europe despite the fact they have two full stacks in Brittany still. They still hadnt moved! I quickly built up my Morrocco defense with a full stack there to keep Spain from crossing from Gibraltar. I now started taking Spanish colonies in the Americas. I made a 10 unit stack and invaded New Andalusia. It was an easy takeover. I then moved on to and into eastern South America with that army and captured that territory. During this time I sent a 4 unit army to take Hispanola and Cuba one after the other.


    This is as far as I have gotten so far and its about 1754. Spanish colonies are weak it seems. One or two units defending their New Spain capitols in America so I plan on moving into Panama, Mexico, and Florida. I also am building a small army in Tunis of 8-10 units to take Sardinia and perhaps Sicily and Naples. Once I capture all of the Spanish colonies I think I'll make peace with Spain. I hear their homeland is hard to control and it is not part of the Campaign objective. Plus I need to get onto the French and I guess GB. I just need two more territories for a campaign win. French Guyana and New York. I think I can buy or trade with the French for French Guyanna. They have offered it enough times for the Rhineland so maybe I'll do a deal just to avoid a war. I'm not sure how I'll get New York. That will take some thought.

  8. #38

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    United Provinces are more or less a more fun, swifter version of the Brits.

    On VH/VH.

    The key things are trade, trade and more trade - get Indamen to occupy trade spots in the trade theatres as soon as possible. Just get one to as many trade spts as you can and build them up later. Remember you start with a fleet in the East Indies. Use it.

    Secondly, you need to learn. Faster learning triggers better units and getting ahead of the game pays dividends. Turn both Den Haag and Utrecht into University towns and get learning. Use 1 University for Philosophy and the other for Infantry.

    This will occupy your first few turns. You then need to consider where to try to expand.

    1. Americas. This is not a good place. The income is low, the expense high and the British will dominate with the French lapping up anything the Brits don't own. Spain dominate the southern half but this isn't very rich. Overall, you can more or less ignore the Americas.

    2. India. This seems to be a trap set up by the designers. They've made it look like you want to go for Mysore but this will remove the key to early expansion in India. All three Indians are at war or quickly go to war with each other. Mysore as the weakest of the three is the ideal buffer to keep whoever you are attacking busy on two front. I discovered this by mistakenly attacking Maratha instead of Mysore and it quickly became clear this was the right way to play it. Pick either Maratha or Mughals and wipe them out, finally take Mysore when your chosen major has only a couple of territories left. Stop expanding when you just have your trading partner left, they won't attack. One thing with India, you need two Army stacks because they keep sending small forces when you are trying to replenish armies in town and with just one stack, it gets too frustrating.

    3. Europe. Again there is an "obvious" action to take - try and capture Flanders. But once more, i doubt this is the best way to do the scenario. The best thing to do with Europe is to wait till the Swedes start attacking all their neighbours (which they do without fail - I guess the Great Northern War is built in to the Scenario). As they are busy with Russia and P-L, you can sneak up their backside to take Denmark, Norway and Sweden itself, very profitable privinces. Keep going and finish Sweden off in Finland and any Russian/P-L provinces they have captured, then give back any captured provinces to keep the Easterns sweet.

    As you take any province with an existing College or University, use it to start researching the trees you aren't learning in the Netherlands. You don't need to steal or trade for any tech. With this plan, you have the entire technology trees by 1735 and most of the important ones by 1715 which is a massive advantage over the AI.

    Don't worry about any Alliance other than Britian - which is easy to maintain. And don't, whatsoever, get drawn into a long lasting, wasteful land campaign in central Europe!

    Regards,
    Eduin

  9. #39

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eduin View Post
    1. Americas. This is not a good place. The income is low, the expense high and the British will dominate with the French lapping up anything the Brits don't own. Spain dominate the southern half but this isn't very rich. Overall, you can more or less ignore the Americas.

    I think you're making the mistake of only looking at province income and not trade income. The Spanish possessions in the Americas are easily conquered and have high trade income. The only problem is that some of them don't have ports yet early in the game. You'd have to cut taxes to get them to grow those ports as fast as possible. On the flipside, you can conquer everything with a stack of just 3-4 units.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I actually found it quite profitable to expand in both America and Europe while neglecting expansion in India. I could probably have been more aggressive in India. I was thinking about attacking the Mysore but they were wiped out virtually immediately.

    As for Europe, just remember to keep it short and sweet. Rush your starting army to take Flanders and Paris immediately. This prevents an AI buildup there. At the same time, I captured New Andalusia from Curacao and French Guyana from Dutch Guyana. A quick suit of peace allows you to grab some tech and cash from both Spain and France.

    At this time, a quick push for the windward islands also eliminated the pirates which removed several pesky pirate fleets in the trade theaters.

    The next war saw Martinique, Alsace Lorraine and Madrid fall simultaneous which resulted in elimination of France. Another peace which forced Spain to pay out their entire treasury.

    A few turns later, the Spanish offered to trade all their Old World territories except for their new capital Naples as well as Cuba and military access for Madrid. I agreed and immediately attacked Madrid with a nearby stack which resulted in another humiliating peace for the Spanish that robbed their treasury yet again.

    I currently own virtually all of the trade spots and have a wall of German and Italian minors as protectorates. I can take out the Spanish at my leisure as they only possess Naples now.

  11. #41
    Member Member Skott's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    In my experiences there is no one way is best to go strategy. You can do it in a number of ways. Your faction choice can dictate some options might be better than others but you can pretty much make any option work for you if you prepare properly.

    The Spanish American colonies are easily over taken as mentioned above. They all have only a unit or two defending them. In my UP campaign I started in new Andalusia and worked my way through South America, Central America and up into Mexico and the South West America. I used a small side army to take Cuba and Hispanola at the same time.

    North America is harder to conquor since the indians put up more of a fight but the payoff is good. It just takes longer to build the economy compared to the Spanish Colonies.

    Leaving Mysore as a buffer state is a good plan. I have done it in most of my campaigns. Take out the Mughals or Marathas first and then go for Mysore. Which you attack first will depend on what faction you play or which you can get to ally with you. No wrong or right choice here IMO. If you are UP its probably easier to start in the south and work up and if you are one of the other European powers invade in the north and work down. Of course you dont have to. Either plan can work. Just be aware Mysore sometimes gets cocky and attacks you before you are ready and forces you to change plans. Also I agree two armies is a good way to capture India. If you want a more challenging time of it just do it with one army. Alternatively if you want it easier use three or four armies. Totally up to the player.

  12. #42
    Future USMC Cobra Pilot Member Prussian to the Iron's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    i started up a UP campaign yesterday. it is easier tan marathas if you do it right. basically you have to imediately take hanover and the 1-province factions around you.

    since you are in the middle of europe, technology will be extremely easy to come by. i haven't recruited a singl gentleman since the beginning, and he won i thnk 7 duels in a row. he then proceeded to steal about 5 or 6 technologies. several battles i got lucky with this. if not for those technologies, i might have lost several critical battles.

    ill put more in tomorrow, its kinda late...
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  13. #43
    Future USMC Cobra Pilot Member Prussian to the Iron's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    well, i destroyed mysore, hannover, and the country south of hanover(dont remember name, its right to your southeast, across the river). mysore i got extremely lucky. i brought a general, 2 of the better cavalry from ceylon, 2 demi-cannons, and 4 or 5 line infantry from ceylon (its a different name, but they have same stats). i then had to fight off a full stack plus 7 other units. and to make it even worse, i was downhill, so counter-attacking was almost imposible without my cavalry. once i got to mysore, there was no one left besides mobs. they were easily routed by my cavalry.

    i also noticed that the UP gets better cavalry than anyone else.

    i know people have suggested fighting spain, but i want to try and milk them for as long as i can. they have been trying to buy over the province south-east of my capital for several turns. i notice every time, their price goes up. they are actually offering florida and somewhere in the carribean plus a few hundred for a single city. ill see how high their ofer goes.....
    Last edited by Prussian to the Iron; 04-05-2009 at 14:07.
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  14. #44
    Member Member anweRU's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'll keep my UP campaign description short. Played on Hard.

    Turn 1. Build line infantry in Holland, col. line inf. in Curacao, militia in Dutch Guyana. IM in Ceylon and Dutch Guyana, and a Fluyt (for battle purposes) in Curacao. Make as many alliances as possible (Savoy, Genoa, Italian States, Venice, etc). Replace Mughal trade pact with an Ottoman one.

    Move the Dutch Guyana militia to the border with French Guyana. Combine the two armies in Holland. One general occupies my port (so I don't get raided). A pike unit stays in the capital. The trade fleet in East Indies is broken up. Claim 4 trading spots immediately. Remaining two shpis sent to either Madagascar Straits or Ivory Coast. The fleet by Ceylon sent to MS. The fleet in Europe on its way to IC.

    Caribean fleet attacks the nearby pirate fleet. I don't remember the result. Two damaged sloops sent to the ports of the pirate islands to avoid new pirate ships being recruited. The remaining ships go back to Curacao's port.

    I don't remember what I set out to research - probably farm enclosures. Built the farm in Holland, and a couple of other improvements here and there. I didn't have much money for improvements the first 5-6 turns, as I was busy recruiting military units, and Indiamen.

    Turn 2. Declare war on Spain. My allies join the war. Capture Flanders. Sure for peace with Spain. Capture French Guyana with the single milita unit (no garrison worthy of the name). Immediately order an IM. Sue for peace with France. Take army from Curacao, land outside of New Andalucia. Order a couple more line inf. at Holland.

    Turn 3 onwards. French declares war on me. My allies join the war. So does Spain. By turn 4 I capture Paris, make peace with France. Paris is a cauldron, I end up knocking down the university and Catholic churches. Replace university with an industrial town, build two Protestant churches. Eventually France becomes the happiest province in my dominions - over 20 for middle & lower classes, with only 3 dragoons in Paris.

    In a couple of turns I send my army in New Andalucia to capture the Columbian province. Two stacks there. One attacks me (and is badly mauled), while the other (with a general) is moving towards New Andalucia. Without enough troops, I sue for peace, and hold on to my new territories. My fleet is attacked - I don't remember if it was a pirate or Spanish fleet. Thanks to the fluyt, I even manage to capture one ship (on auto-calc).

    My little Americas army is reinforced with troops from New Andalucia and Curacao, move to take T&T and Windward Isles. The sloops finally get repaired.

    Keep churning out IM until I can claim all available trade spots, then add a second IM to each spot. Spain DoW on me, but France and New Spain refuse to join. My allies are already at war with Spain - it doesn't have much of a navy left. So my Americas army moves to capture Hispaniola and Cuba. Within a turn or two of Spain's DoW, it annexes New Spain. Two small stacks move by sea and land to capture Panama and Guatamela. The large stack moves from Havana to Mexico and captures it. Spain is left only with Florida and New Mexico. Accepts peace.

    Sometime by 1710 Marathas declared war on Portugal, I supported my ally. Captured Carnatica, then Mysore, Goa and Hyderabad. Made peace with the Marathas by turn 36 (1717 or 1718).

    I bought NY from GB for 82K around 1716. Immeadiately transported troops form the Caribean area to reinforce before the Iriquois attack (they will, even though I bribed them). Pueblo Nations DoW on me as soon as I pulled out my large stack from Mexico. My navy is about to land troops on the shores of Texas, as soon as the foolish AI moves its two stacks into Mexico (which it will do). Sweden DoW on Hannover (why?) and Poland on Malta (and even bigger why?!) during the AI's turn 36, so I am at war with both on turn 37.

    I captured Rhineland for its classical university (I had only Utrecht until roughly turn 28 or so). Lyon, Kraljendik (Curacao), Kandy (Ceylon) and Mysore's university are recent additions.

    I demolished the weaver in Holland so I can build a second university, in order to get enough clamor-for-reform. I want to switch to a constitutional monarch ASAP, so I can upgrade my farms, ports, industries and mines without causing lower-class rebellions all over the place. I have so far been unsuccessful to cause enough discontent among the middle class, due to winning victories all the time.
    Last edited by anweRU; 04-05-2009 at 18:36.
    Ancestry: Turkish & Irish. Guess my favorite factions!

  15. #45
    Member Member Psycotic Empire's Avatar
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    Post Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I started playing out as the Prussians, but I gave up on them when everyone from all sides got angry at me and attacked me all because I wanted that little province between my nation that is held by P-L. I quit and started a new game as the Dutch, and decide to take it slow, protecting my trade routes and rooting out the Pirates in the Caribbean Sea, make a small, but very wealthy colony. I traded with France and soon own all the islands through bartering tech and money (I had a lot of money).

    Around 1720, my ally, Great Britain, went to war with Spain, France's best bud. The French AI refused enter the war which broke there alliance. Now with France no longer a threat to my control of Flanders, I took it with little forces and great ease. I then took Madrid and proceeded to finish of the rest of the Spanish forces Iberia. I sold the place to Britain for a great amount of tech and New York, one of my target provinces.

    With these domains secure by 1727, I built a new army and commenced a twofold attack on France, taking first Paris, then A-L. This for some reason destroyed them and freed New France, and Louisiana. At the moment, I’m fighting the Spanish for control over the rest of the Islands in the Caribbean. I will soon defeat Spain in Europe, thereby freeing the New Spanish colonist.

  16. #46

    Default Destroying The Spanish

    I'm on my second Dutch campaign. It's a World Domination game on Expert/Expert and it's currently 1736. I have usurped Spain in all things except for taking Gibraltar and Spain proper from them.

    I started out by taking Flanders on my first turn. I started an early war with Spain in doing so, and in order to leave France out of it I gave them Cacau (sp?) for an alliance and a trade agreement. I also used my first turn to destroy the mercantile facility at Den Haag, in order to build a university there. I moved my ships in the East Indies to take up all of the trade points there, sending my sixth ship to Madagascar. I produced sloops in Sri Lanka and the Netherlands and sent them to Madagascar as well. I upgraded what I could, spared Flanders from taxes, and passed the turn.

    Over the next few turns I quickly and aggressively reserved all of the spots in Madagascar, avoiding the Pirates but confronting (and defeating) the Spanish whenever I could. After sending Indiamen to make a profit off my subtheatre monopolies, I focussed on producing fleets of 4-5 Fluyts to patrol and raid my maritime rivals, securing my trade routes and destroying the Spanish presence. New money from my dominance in trade allowed me to do this. I also sought early the markets of Westphalia and Hannover, with which I did business over land. Since I started making quite the profit each turn, I built a standing army to start taking Spanish assets with. The first army I sent immediately to Napoli, accompanied by two fleets. These saw my army through the narrow, dangerous straits of Gibraltar, before parting. One fleet went on to blockade the Spanish port at Barcelona, while the other continued toward Napoli. Spain's downfall was continuous from that moment. I took Napoli with relative ease. Central Italy declared war on me two turns later, and I built a fort near my new border with Rome to house my army for the time being, since Rome kept a larger one than mine.

    I started raising a half-stack army in Dutch Guyana, consisting of a general, native bowmen, native musketeers, native cavalry, and militia. I put this army on a boat and set sail for the shores of New Andalusia. Over the next turn I attacked and captured New Andalusia, and sent my army, after reinforcing, to the neighbouring region, marching northward and conquering the Americas. No real challenge was offered to me there.

    Rome, however, was threatening me, and I beat them by virtue of their own mistake. They divided their army and sent one around to the northern-most town in Southern Italy, raiding it, but not retreating their forces. Taking the advantage, I sent my troops straight to Rome, and fought my best battle yet: a full-stack of theirs against a full-stack of mine. I won a close battle (damn the pathfinding in fort battles!) and seized Central Italy. Venice declared war a turn later.

    I kept my army in Rome to recuperate, and promptly attacked Venice. It was an easy battle after the fighting in Rome, and from there I went on to take Milan. By this time, most of the Spanish holdings in the Americas were mine, save for Mexico, Guatemala, Florida, New Mexico, Cuba, and Hispaniola. I did not make any further martial move in Europe, but kept the pressure on Spain by never lifting their blockade. I gave out state gifts to various nations to remedy their fears of expansionism, and looked to further develop my infrastructure. A few turns from then, I had everything from Mexico through Dutch Guyana.

    I decided to try something using diplomacy: I threatened Spain to give me Florida in return for a peace treaty, and to my shock and pleasure, they accepted. I immediately declared war again and kept the blockade, thinking that I would be able to repeat this feat to gain their other holdings, and I did. I took Florida, New Mexico, Cuba and Hispaniola without a fight. Upon declaring war again, by the way, both Great Britain and France joined me against the Spanish, cutting them off from any outside trade.

    I sent a new army to deal with what remained of Venice, in Southern Greece. Taking that region, I immediately traded that plus New Mexico to France for French Guyana, lending me (I think) a global monopoly on spice trade. I moved my army from Mexico to Florida, and lowered my taxes globally to the minimum, as I was making more than enough money through trade, and wanted to benefit from a happy populace. I am on my way to converting most of Italy and South America to Protestantism.

    I took Savoy and Sardinia, built a new university in Florence, and cut off trade with the Mughals and Marathas, as they'd frequently blockade each other and lose me money. Instead, I offered my goods to Prussia and the Ottoman Empire, who became my largest buyers and border partners.

    That's where I am right now. I am eyeing Morocco and India for my next conquest.

    What should I do with Spain? Should I finish them off? Should I leave them to wallow in their own manure?
    Last edited by Kikosemmek; 04-15-2009 at 06:01.

  17. #47
    Member Member anweRU's Avatar
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    Default Re: Destroying The Spanish

    To have a global spice trade monopoly you will need three regions + the 5 East Indies slots:
    - French Guyana in the Americas
    - Carnatica (Marathas) & Bangalore (Mughals) in the Indian theater.
    Ancestry: Turkish & Irish. Guess my favorite factions!

  18. #48

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Alright, then, a close monopoly :P

    I wanted to touch on a rather effective tactic that I've been using. The Dutch have the good position of being able to recruit Native Bowmen from the start of the campaign. I've been using those for their superior range to compliment my lines. As Line Infantry and/or Grenadiers exchange fire with the enemy, I'll have three or four squads of Bowmen right behind them, shooting arrows at the same targets, affording me easy extra kills on the enemy. Since the arrows are fired indirectly, my troops are never in danger of friendly fire. After a little while, I'll send in a charge to shatter the enemy, perhaps followed by a lob of grenades.

  19. #49
    Humanist Senior Member Franconicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I am doing my very first game with the Dutch, just to see how the game works.
    My approach is somehow different, so it may be of some interest.

    II play h/h. My intention is to put the focus on the oversea colonies and to secure my position at Europe mainly with diplomacy.

    Therefore, first of all I made a military and trade alliance with Cologne. They also gave me rights to pass their territory and money. Next was Hannover, another military pact, more money and crossing rights. Finally I made a military pact with Württemberg.

    Next step was France. I changed my colony on the South American mainland for a military pact and Lorraine. This has two advantages: I have two provinces at Europe, which should increase my strength there and my American forces were now concentrated on this island in the Atlantic.
    With the alliances with Austria, England, France and the smaller countries and the pockets filled with gold I was looking forward into a bright future. I started to build a garrison at Lorraine and three line regiments at my American colony. I also upgraded the mine at India. My focus in research was science.

    Next turn Prussia declared war against Austria. Being a good ally, I stepped aside and made a landing at the coasts of Brandenburg. Prussians attacked, I defeated them and took Berlin. So I had three fine provinces at Europe including another school.

    Now, troubles began. Prussia did not want to make peace and I did not want to chase them. The population in this conquered province stayed unhappy and I had to free it from taxation.

    Saxony declared war and even my ally Württemberg. However, I was pleased to see that France declared war on Württemberg.

    Now I had a small, four unit garrison at the Netherlands, a half full army at Lorraine and another three quarter at Berlin. The Lorraine army was not big enough to attack the full army at Württemberg. It could also not attack the Spaniards at Flanders, because of Wurttemberg. My garrison at Berlin was tied down because of the unrest. So I could not do much and, even worse, I began to run out of money.

    Here I recalled my original plans and my army at America. It was four line and two militia regiments, costing a lot of money without any benefit. So I made them jump into the boats and sail north to that Spanish island. I landed there and overran the garrison. Of course, this meant war with Spain and France joined them. To my surprise, the Spanish army left Flanders and turned eastward to attack me. It was a tough fight, but I hold the fort and repelled the Spaniards. Next turn I gathered every man at the Netherlands, marched south and took Flanders. France did not bother me and Württemberg was quiet, too.

    Then I did some island hoping, taking Cuba and then jumping on the mainland to take Mexico. I succeeded and was waiting for the Spanish counterstrike. They gathered troops south of Mexico and also crossed France to send a new army to Flanders.

    I do not like to fight if there can be a peaceful solution for both sides, so I started to negotiate. In the end, Spain accepted peace on my terms, which means I received the two provinces south of Mexico.

    Now I had enough cash flow and the situation at Europe is still quiet, although I have many enemies. So now I started to upgrade my new mines in the New World and to build up an army at Mexico. My plans include building a navy to fight pirates and to take some of the French colonies, before I finally make peace with them.

    However, I had to change my plans, as the Pueblos decided to invade me. These bloody heathens are continuously sending new full armies into my territory. I filled my rows and waited for them at the gates of Mexico City. Here, misfortune reached me.

    The heathens camped outside of the city. I decided to attack, with not less than three mobile artillery regiments, four line regiments, three dragoons and some auxiliaries. I took it slowly – as you never know where they hide. My garrison of Mexico joined and I slowly narrowed the ring around the Pueblos. They suffered lot of casualties and their rows finally broke down. Almost the complete army was crashed and even their chief ran away. However, the time limit was reached and therefore I was the looser. My army retreated, foolishly not into the town but way east. So Mexico City is completely undefended and the Pueblos can occupy it the next turn.

    Never mind! My army is much stronger than their, so I will take it back and eliminate the Pueblo army. Then I will take care about the other one in the north.

  20. #50
    Member Member Psycotic Empire's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    It was amazing. I had deleted my previous campaign as UP to have the patches take effect. I started my new campaign and decide to try and find allies within the German republics. On my first turn, giving up no money, I made Hannover, Savory, and Westphalia my protectorates just by offering them alliance and trade rights. Genoa and Venice also joined my German coalition as allies with full trade rights. I more then doubled my income and was making 6,000 right off the bat. I avoided war with Spain and France by trading my Indian province and 3000 gold for Flanders. I then started to take out pirate settlements in North America and build up a decent army there. As tension and my need for land rose, I declared war on Spain. The French and Spanish forces were crushed by my German allies in northern Europe. France cut off my trade and I was down to just 247 per turn. So to sign a peace, get some land, and put France out of action for a LONG time without having to fight endless waves of rebels, I invaded mainland France, captured it, and destroyed EVERYTHING. The city was taken down; I burnt the farms, destroyed factories, and took down churches. I then gave it back to France in exchange for peace and a nice sum of money, French Guiana, and indefinite military access.. This is the greatest start to a campaign I’ve ever had. I'm thinking about doing the same thing to Spain. Its only 1715 right now in my campaign, I’ve taken most of the New Spanish provinces in South America. I’m creating a new army with this new wealth, and will soon conquer Mexico.

  21. #51

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    yeah I'm pretty much involved in a 3-war war right now,after the Marathas and the mughal empire both declared war on me,breaking our trade alliances,which did but me in the whole until I was able to negiotate a trade agreements with sweden,denmark and the Ottoman empire. I'm also busy with finishing off what's left of france,after I finally took paris after a hard-fought battle,witch I won thanks to mass grenadiers fire in the middle of a clump of french line infantry,instant mass-rout. I'm also fighting a naval trade war against spain,france and Marthas combined,they seem to underesitmate the power of flyutes,as they keep trying to take them out with brings and sloops..

  22. #52

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    A lot of the strategies for UP mention that you should take up all of the trade spots in the various regions (i.e. Madagascar) but I am not sure how you can possibly do that with the new patch. Every time I leave a small fleet on the trade point, the pirates come and blow it away. Did the pirates not attack ships on the trade points before the 1.3 patch?

    It costs so much time and resources to create the large fleets that I am not seeing the large returns that people are reporting.

  23. #53

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Ideally you should crush the pirates asap,before they can build up a big fleet. I took out the starting pirate fleets with 2 flyutes,then blockacked there docks,and apart from attempts to break my blockade every so often, I didn't have any trouble from them.

  24. #54

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    You'll want to keep your Pacific fleet together and send everything else to support an attack on the pirates. Hopefully by the time you get their islands (5-10 turns in) you can be in position to grab a lot of the trade slots before you end up at war with other Europeans.

    This is also a big game changer in how you have to handle India, whereas prior once you had made a landing you were basically safe, now you will need to destroy whichever faction's port provinces ASAP.

  25. #55
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    UP is great fun post 1.03 whereas before the patches they were one of the most boring factions.

    some UP VH campaign notes:

    1. Declare war on New Spain ASAP (turn 1 is good too)
    2. #1 allows you to take Flanders without going to war with France
    3. #1 allows you to take New Andalusia (a required province for GC)
    4. Westphalia is tasty (another school there)...
    5. Prepare for naval fun... fluyts are great to fight the pirates or anyone else who makes it to the trade theaters. I find, post 1.03, UP is the most interesting faction to play in terms of naval warfare. Now you have to fight for the trade theaters and protect them.
    6. Try to capture (chain shot is your friend!) some galleons from the Pirates and Spanish early on. Galleons have more fire-power than fluyts and they can trade. Thus, they (along with fluyts) make great 'garrison' units for trade theaters. Note that due to the high upkeep of galleons and fluyts, Indiamen will still be your "profit rakers" as far as trade goes. Still, it's better to have a galleon guarding the trade node (along with Indiamen traders) than a fourth rate. Fourth rate does not earn its upkeep whereas the galleon/fluyt does.
    7. DO NOT, keep the dockyard in Flanders! Rather switch to a trade port! Why? The Dutch are all about trading and those extra trade routes, brought by the second trade port (on the mainland) will help. As far as fluyts go, they're great fighting ships for a couple decades at least.
    8. As time progresses, build a dockyard somewhere else. Cuba and Hispanola are good candidates since they both get several port slots.
    9. France will attack sooner or later. The star fort inside France makes an excellent Dutch homeland defense point. French armies will break their teeth trying to retake it. If they damaged the fort too much by arty, withdraw to Flanders for a turn and let the French repair the fort for you.
    10. After a few goes at their former star fort, French armies are usually toast. At that point you can either take out France (march on Paris) or keep them in game indefinitely for gameplay purpuses. I did the latter.
    11. Help out your allies (English and Austrians): it makes for a fun game.
    12. I did not bother about conquering India until mid-game when Marathas DOW on me (trying to take Ceylon). They were great trade partners for the first couple decades.
    13. Swiss and Scottish mercenaries are great! You'll love them.


    I'd like to stress another important point for a successful Dutch campaign in which French and Spanish ARE NOT wiped out (a game-play decision).

    Take Gibraltar early!

    A big stack of French or Spanish ships sitting on the naval artery near Portugal can effectively wipe out ALL Dutch trade (happened to me). So, the Dutch need a base there to successfully defeat French/Spanish navies and repair the war fleets. I'd suggest sending an expeditionary force to Gibraltar as soon as possible. That's what the British did anyway (for a very similar reason I think). As an additional bonus point, the Dutch gain a dockyard in Gibraltar, which helps a lot since the dockyard in Flanders should be turned into a trading harbor asap for cash flow purposes.
    Last edited by Slaists; 07-20-2009 at 15:35.

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