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Thread: United Provinces (the Dutch)

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    The Abominable Senior Member Hexxagon Champion Monk's Avatar
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    Default United Provinces (the Dutch)

    The United Provinces are one of the 12 major factions available for play.

  2. #2

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    So, the united provinces. I looked at another few factions, but I wanted to start small in order to understand how the game works and not have to micromanage so many things. Start with enforcing your trade routes to America and India, these routes are often attacked by pirates. I didn't know you had two provinces in America 'til at least 1715, silly me. Anyway, Prussia, your ally, will probably go to war wit Poland-Lithuania. I took the province separating The two halves of Prussia, then sold it to them for some tech. Get gentlemen running through france and spain, then later moving on to all of europe. Meanwhile, start building trade ships and move to the ivory coast; These spots fill up fast! Eventually Austria went to war with Spain and France, and being the good ally that I am, I joined them. After taking Flanders, I ran into financial hardshisp and sold it to great britain for a nice sum. From there I formed another army and marched on Paris itself. After a good win, I began guarding my borders better and building an army. The year is 1720ish, Spain has taken Paris and I have taken Madrid, and the whole nation is in turmoil. Great britain is your favorite ally, be sure to keep in touch with them. Factions are generally not very tech-generous. I immediately researched plug bayonets and then ring bayonets, and the whole time be stealing other tech such as square formation and naval upgrades.

  3. #3
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    An early war with Spain is in order- they own Flanders, which is intolerable for the Dutch. Spend the first few turns in Europe getting an army in order, and quickly attack Flanders and seize it. Shouldn't be terribly difficult- Flanders hasn't a lot of defenses, typically. Make sure to bring some Sakers. Even though they're fixed artillery, they are still invaluable for forcing the Spaniards out into the open. Make sure to be ready in the Caribbean as well. The Spanish are vulnerable- they have few defenses in most of their cities here, you shouldn't need much to take them, just keep a decent enough navy to keep the pirates from getting your armies to the Spanish possessions.

    It should be noted that the Spanish start allied with France- I would advise against continuing onwards to Paris. It is much more heavily fortified than Flanders. However, this also means the potential to take the French sugar Islands in the pacific.

    By the time you're finished, it is quite conceivable to have taken Cuba, Hispanolia, and all of the smaller French and Spanish Islands, as well as possibly Panama and Spanish colonies in South America.

    After obtaining a desirable peace from the Spanish and French, attentions must be turned to the Pirates. They will obstruct your trade, attack merchantmen, and be general nuisances. Make sure to bring a good sized army with you when you try to take their islands- they will be much more difficult to take than the Spanish or French possessions, but its still not too terribly difficult; above all, just make sure to treat the Pirates not as rebels, but as the faction they are. Think of it not as a raid, but a military campaign, and you should do well. Again, cannons(preferably mobile versions) are very helpful. I also found Native American horseman valuable as screening and flanking units. A unit or two of them will not go wrong against the all-infantry pirates.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  4. #4
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Playing my first proper campaign game after completing the RtI tutorial, I chose the Dutch. I played a short campain on the default M/M difficulty setting.

    Strategic considerations
    You begin with 1 European province, 2 American provinces and 1 Indian province. You are allied with England and Austria -as good a pair of allies as any could hope for. France and Spain are hostile to you, but you aren't actually at war with them, yet...

    You are nicely set up with trade routes, having agreements with both Mughals and Maratha in India, and England in Europe. If I remember rightly, you may have 1 spare trade route (although if you don't start with one, it didn't take me long to get another ). Your main trade goods are spices, sugar and tea but your provinces in America and India also have a fair few gem and gold mines.

    Militarily, your colonial provinces are poorly garrisoned - and with no armies in the field. In the Americas, your settlements will take a fair ammount of development to be able to recruit anything like a capable field army. Thankfully, no one else in south America is much of a powerhouse at this stage either. Ceylon, in the Indian area, has great potential for projecting Dutch supremacy accros India (or at least the south). However, it too starts with only a general and 1 unit of East india company line inf.

    In Europe however, you start with a garrison, an army in the field and 2 generals. You can recruit line infantry off the bat as well as fixed artillery.

    The Dutch Navy is at somewhat of a disadvantage in the Americas and Europe. Your 2 fleets in these regions are smaller than both the English and French Channel/North sea fleets (in Europe) and the pirate fleets in the Americas. In India, you possibly start with more of an advantage over the Maratha and Mughals.

    That's alot on surveying your starting resources & strategic situation, hopefully it will be usefull for most games -however you play.

    Playing a short campaign, I had to take & hold 15 provinces, 9 of which were pre specified. The listed territories to claim are all in America or India and are (at the beginning of the game) under the control of Spain, France, England and the Maratha. It was therefore logical to expect war with these factions -unless England being an ally and the Maratha a trade partner would offer alternative methods for gaining control of their regions.

    The threat of war with France and Spain -probably at the same time was worrying. Taking their colonial provinces would almost certainly lead to them attacking my single European settlement. I considered turtling for a bit, but what convinced me otherwise was the alliances with Austria and England. Both of whom could lend a decent hand in dealing with the Bourbon kings in Europe and America.

    The campaign
    So, in a rather reckless/bold move, I declared war on Spain in my first turn and attacked Flanders. England and Austria both joined in the war against Spain, but unfortunately did not do so with France who ralied to Spain's banner because of their alliance.

    I'll not go into a turn by turn guide, but relate some overall strategy & significant events.

    I took Flanders from Spain in 1 or 2 turns, ending the Spanish presence in northern Europe. Over the next few turns, France however kept sending armies (half stacks or less) from Paris and Alsace to raid my towns. Using reinforcements from Holland, I was able to beat these small armies 1 at a time, whilst building up a second stack of troops.

    Once I had 2 stacks in Flanders, I sent 1 to take Alsace and clear any French armies on the way, and the other to the French fort in between Flanders and Paris -blocking any future raiders from access to Flanders.

    Alsace fell quickly, the raider armies having been beaten before and there being nothing much left to defend the city.

    Meanwhile, my stack occupying the northern French fort faced several assaults by French armies, superior in size. These assaults were repelled without significant Dutch casualties and i was able to raid the French pleasure palace every turn.

    In the Americas, I built up a a small force of militia & Indian melee infantry (5/6 units max) in my southernmost region. These troops i moved down accross land to the French colony (on the north coast of what i guess is now Brazil), winning an easy victory and claiming the first of my specified regions with more spices, gold and gems.

    Back in Europe, after taking Flanders and moving my focus onto France, i sent my European fleet to do some Piracy on the main French shipping lane in the channel. After a turn of piracy, the french fleet showed up and, outnumbering mine, i withdrew (like a good pirate). They chased me however, and trounced me -sinking my entire European fleet...

    The French fleet then proceeded to raid MY shipping lane -causing the game advisor to get all agitated about me not being able to balance the books (or something silly like that -don't you know there's a war on?). Happily, all i needed to do was send a unit of militia from Flanders to garrison the port -forcing the french fleet out and opening my trade route again.

    Concerned that they migth do this again or that it might get worse, I marched half my victorious stack from Alsace and all of the stack occupying the Fort on Paris.

    After a quick number-crunch-of-death, i captured Paris, defeating France and ending it's existance!

    Quebec immediately emerged as an independant faction, the rest of the French colonies in America (Martinique etc), going rogue.

    I was facing quite a lot of unrest in Paris, due to religion and loyalty to the previous ruler, which was tying my stack down. Fearing an attack from Spain, i was able to negotiate a straight cease-fire with them, giving me some breathing space to consolidate & develop my now expansive realm.

    Although I hadn't advanced greatley towards claiming the territories neccessary for victory, I considered myself in a more than advantageous position, from which a short period of turtling would achieve a lot more than if i had done so at the very start (more resources & more ways to spend them). That sounds like i was feeling rather pleased with myself, but frankly i was -who'd expect the Dutch to annihilate France??? (Ok, so in real life they historicaly did an amazing job of protecting themselves, but still...)

    I went on to re-declare war with Spain, moving two stacks through to Madrid (1 on the north Atlantic coast, 1 through the Pyrenees). At the same time in America, i marched on New Andalucia and then New Granada, bringing the entirety of the north coast of South America under Dutch control (i had previously stopped off & captured the Pirate colony of trinidad & tobago).

    After taking Madrid, and now occupying the two largest western european regions, as well as facing at least 2 full Spanish stacks moving up from Gibraltar, I re declared peace with Spain in another straight deal (no sweatners).

    By this time in india, I had teched up enough to recruit a decent & balanced stack including howitzers, horse arty & grenadiers. I took 1 stack (with my doddery 70yr old general -yes, a risk if he fell from his horse) and captured carnatca from the Maratha.

    This left only 1 specified territory to capture: New York. My best ally's... as well as a few non-specified territories to make up the numbers.

    Not wishing to ruin things for myself with England, I decided to leave the capture of New York till the last few turns (playing the game less than realistically, perhaps).

    I made the rest of the numbers up by adding Mysore to my Indian territories.

    Closing remarks/musings
    If you are still reading by this point, i think it might have been possible to gain control of New york through less cheaty means than declaring war on my ally in the last turn of the game. Spain kept making me silly offers to exchange New granada for: Gibraltar, lombardy, Sardinia & Naples. I never tried, but might reload later, and see if England can't be induced to swap some Italian states for New York...

    Other closing remarks:

    1. I suck at Naval warfare and have mixed feelings about how i was able to be so successfull with nearly no fleets (and no trading fleets either). The AI, whether factions or pirates, would raid a lane or blocakde a port for 1 turn and then move off. I could also disrupt their amphibious raids on my ports by re-occupying them with militia. Except for that one time the advisor would not allow me to end the turn for fear of not balancing the books, i was not sufficiently bothered enough to cover the expense of standing fleets.

    2. It is essential to destroy religious buildings of other denmoniations on capturing a province. They do not automaticaly switch to your religion, and are not automaticaly destroyed (as in MTW2). They will continue to convert citizens to their religion so long as you leave them there.

    3. Fill out your extra trade slots as and when you get them. I found i had an abundance of slots and found it hard to find enough trade partners (till the end of the game, Austria would not trade with me -despite being a close ally!)

    4. Occupy and hold forts, enemy or otherwise wherever you can. In my game, the AI was pretty inept at using them (most notably the fort defending Paris, to the north). They allow you to control territory and they will maximise your defensive advantage. I find them one heck of a lot more useful than their equivalents in MTW2 were.

  5. #5

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'm playing on M/M as well. I'm only up to turn 7, I believe, but I spent the first few turns upgrading all the mines in my empire. There's quite a few of them, especially in Guyana. I built a farm in my home province as well and upgraded all my farms after I got the first farm upgrade.

    I immediately sent my Americas fleet to West Africa to kill the pirates. The ones in East Africa are too strong for now so I sent my fleet back to the Americas for repair. While this is going on, I'm spamming Indiamen from all my ports. I sent some to West Africa, then to Brazil and the ones going to Brazil should arrive in the next couple of turns. They're all undefended but the competition is Portugal and Britain. I doubt they'd attack me.

    I kept asking Westphalia and Hannover for trade and they kept refusing. At around my current turn, they finally relented but asked 800ish and 500ish gold respectively. Looks like it'll mostly pay off in 1 turn so I accepted. I'm building roads as welll, mostly as an experiment. I have no idea how much it'll add to trade (it did in RTW and MTW2), but 750 each for my 3 underdeveloped provinces is a small price to pay.

    I'm just now starting to build land units in the Americas. I was planning to attack the pirate province first but I guess I'll start with the Spanish ones next to me. I'm not sure if it's New Spain or Spain. Hopefully, it's New Spain so some of Spain's allies might not attack me. Going to start building some troops in the Netherlands as well to conquer Flanders and I'll have to build up a navy to protect my sea trade in the next few turns.

  6. #6
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I totally neglected trade fleets, not through any conscious decision, more becasue i didn't know what i was doing yet...

    Was still hauling in 13k a turn at times.

    How much profit can you make from trade fleets?

  7. #7

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    At turn 7, I believe I have 4 indiamen in West Africa making 480 each. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe the number goes up every turn. Also, adding more trade fleets to a trade theater reduces the per ship income, even if they're on different zones within the theater. It's not that much, but indiamen only cost 50 upkeep per turn.

    Also, trade goes directly into your treasury unlike province income, where only the taxed portion goes into your income. What I'm still not sure, is the trade portion of province income. That seems different from normal trade income somehow.

  8. #8

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    How much profit can you make from trade fleets?
    Before I went to war with France and Spain I was hauling in around 39k/turn in trade with 2-3 fleets about half full per trade theatre. Afterward it got totally ridiculous and I think my current for turn profit is 32k after 50k of Naval/Army upkeep ...

  9. #9
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Sweet! i was prejudiced against a navy due to the high cost of maintaining them in MTW2.

    I placed a couple of fleets (forcibly) in all but the brazilian trade area last night. I'm not making money on the same scale as you report, but it does seem (and CA bloody well should have made it) profitable, to say the least.

  10. #10
    Member Member Szun's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    I totally neglected trade fleets, not through any conscious decision, more becasue i didn't know what i was doing yet...

    Was still hauling in 13k a turn at times.

    How much profit can you make from trade fleets?
    as UK i got 56000 per turn from trade..in 1750 (and 33k from taxes at 3/2 (noble/lower))



    the return is less and less the more you add ships 20/13etc but haveing 32+ ships(total) at 8 spots....
    is some nice cashflow.


    My overall strategy is "sit back and research/trade"
    i avoid wars at all cost, pick up some random province that goes "rebel" or take the pirats

    the point where i would consider going to war is after i got volleyfire for lineinfantry...befor that its a waste of time and money.
    Btw, best unit vs. americans are dragoons or cavalry in general (but you can build draggon in colonies soo...)
    Last edited by Szun; 03-11-2009 at 03:06.

  11. #11

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    I placed a couple of fleets (forcibly) in all but the brazilian trade area last night. I'm not making money on the same scale as you report, but it does seem (and CA bloody well should have made it) profitable, to say the least.
    Brazil is the least profitable of the theatres. You'll notice in the trade panel that it displays the price of each commodity, this is based both on its availability and the number of factions offering it. I had my ports in India and South America churning out a trade ship nonstop from 1700 to 1730, by 1725 or so I could not spend money fast enough.

    The only downside to trade income is that you need to keep a cash reserve since someone blockading the port in the Netherlands can result in your income falling by 90% for a turn or two, which will destroy your fielded armies. After the early game, however, it's virtually impossible not to unless you simply like building metaled road systems on islands with 1 village because you can.

  12. #12

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    A trade simulator campaign.

    United Provinces (Hard/Hard)

    This is probably the easiest faction to play for a economic start. I started out by putting all starting cash into Fluyts and used starting fleets to attack pirates and began researching down the economic philosophy line. In about 15 turns I've destroyed the pirates and filled up on Fluyts to import raw materials. Then I bought a trade agreement with Ottoman Empire.

    A war was started by an ally against France, so I grabbed the French colonies in South America with no battle at all (auto resolve vs mob garrison). Then I bought a trade agreement with Russia. By turn 30, I was getting 60k per turn and bought all the technologies available for some 12-30k a piece (a bit more expensive than on normal difficulty). With this much income I amassed several fleets of 2nd-rates + bomb ketch fleets and is now the supreme naval power.

    At this point, factions are bending over backwards for Dutch gold. This campaign is pretty much done with just a few big naval battles against pirates and at the start of the war against France. Rest of the time the gameplay centered around diplomacy screen and pressing end turn.

    Tips:

    Starting out,

    1. No need for dockyard. Fluyts already fight like 4th-rates and maybe even harder to sink. Plus they can be docked onto trading nodes in time of peace to improve import capacity. Fluyts pay for themselves and keep the trade lanes safe.

    2. No need for more than one school. You can buy technologies later after your trade lanes are established.

    3. No need for war. If either your enemy or your trade partner's enemy blockades a trade lane, it's crapified for you.

    4. No need for alliance. Ottoman Empire and Russia are two big importers, but they like fighting each other. Don't ally either so you can keep trading with both.

    Edit: It may be worthwhile to ally the British despite having to fight their enemies. No one else can stop your trade except the British. Allying the British is just a safeguard against the possibility of a British blockade against you.

    5. No need for army. A Fluyt costs less in upkeep than just about any infantry unit and it pays for itself through trade. And it scares others into respecting your borders. If someone decides to hate you anyway then just pay them off.

    6. No need for expansion. If you expand your diplomatic rating will drop with all other factions. Hasty expansion may severely limit your ability to conduct trade. Make sure to weigh the value of tradeables produces in an expansion against the loss of diplomatic rating before launching an invasion. If you're lacking imports, you can always stack more Fluyts or Indiaman onto some trade nodes.

    When you get some money,

    7. Buy technology from small factions at war with big ones so that they can use the money to hold back the bigger ones.

    8. Build dockyards and rival the British in navy just to be safe.

    When you get massive money,

    9. Start new campaign.
    Last edited by Arifel; 03-12-2009 at 07:48.

  13. #13

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Being a proud inhabitant, I obviously started as the united provinces.

    I attacked new Spain which is a spanish protectorate first. That way i was at war with the spanish, and not the french. The french have nothing valuable u can take from them anyway (except that brazilian colony) , so i left them alone and established land trade route with them.

    Take spains trade spots. Destroy pirates. Take new spain. Take trade routes.
    Basically ive been mainly upgrading my trade.
    Attack southern indians (malatabla confederacy or sumthing) take the southern province. They have lotsa trade spots, take those too. I also made mysore a protectorate.
    Made some german princedoms a protectore (bavaria, westphalia, wurtemburg) as a buffer against the prussians. When the prussians became to powerful, thrashing austria, i took berlin And forced them into peace.

    Then broke my alliance with england and invaded new england (east coast america) with two stacks. took 4 provinces starting from new york moving southwards.

    Campaign won.

    Bribed everyone into liking my, made peace with the brits (they were begging for it when i took theyre colonies and blockaded london)
    Im trading with the brits again which is very profitable, and although i made peace with them my german and indian protectorates and my allies (austria, denmark, mughal empire, iroquois, cherokee) and france are still at war with them which is killing their navy and trade income, and preventing them to expand their colonies.

    Thus im able to keep up the profitable trade with england and prevent them from becoming too powerful.
    Ive also upgraded my main port and entered a profitable trade with the spanish. My sea trade is worth 20k now im stinking rich, everybody likes me, and have the strongest fleet in the world and basically more than halve the trade spots.

    Didnt now you could put multiple trade ships on the same trade spot and it be profitable though. Read that on the forums so im doing that now.

    Its 1730 (20 years before campaign end) ive got all my goals, majority of tech, loads of cash, 4 protectorates and like 10 allies. Not sure what ill do now.
    Last edited by alexanderthegreater; 03-12-2009 at 18:46.

  14. #14

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Arifel, how did you trade with the Ottomans? Did you cancel with either the Maratha or Mughal?

  15. #15
    Member Member MadKow's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'm beginning to think i seriously stink at handling battles.
    On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
    Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
    By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
    Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.

    Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.
    Last edited by MadKow; 03-13-2009 at 13:41.

  16. #16

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I attacked the southern one with I believe 3 units of line infantry and 4 units of militia. They attacked me after I landed and I took heavy losses. The ones on the northern part are easier. I conquered them after I beat most of the Spanish colonies. The pirates are better defended than just about everybody else there.

  17. #17

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    The key is to dominate trade early on and rack up alot of cash without fighting European powers until you have alot of money. Focusing on first the Islands in the new world occupied by pirates will help add trade routes and income. Those plantations bring in a bundle.

  18. #18
    Member Member The historian's Avatar
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    Unhappy Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    To my shame i must say i have lost my first game with them. Pure overconfidence.
    I decided to play conquer America type of game.
    Without trying to upsetting major powers so i just kept my allies and joined them in any fight.
    Kept a full stack at home and the navy and the rest of the armies in the new world.
    Turn 10 Treasury 410000 nothing to build or do with it tried buying provs from the friendly allied nations and Britain but it's impossible they would not take the money offered the British 25000 per turn for Jamaica for 20 turns they turned me down.
    So while i was enjoying fighting the pirates and the Barbary states for fun, France DOW's my allies i DOW them in support, checked and saw Flanders(Spain) didn't join so went back to sipping tea at the palace. With my navy and colonial army took french Guyana and the french Caribbean in one turn I Then clicked end turn without a care in the world after all i was the just filthy rich i mean 55000 per turn income. Suddenly 3 french stacks appear at Amsterdam and attack and despite my brave defense i lose the Netherlands my only European possession And i lose the game .
    I could have probably brought the french army had i been able to negotiate i could have promised them heaven and earth.
    This goes to shows money isn't everything.
    And i discovered a new thing the colonies did not fight on neither Ceylon nor the recently conquered Caribbean. Just in case you don't know
    The Duthc are probably the easiest faction to play with first turn brought me 14000 i was like since in my previous Swedish campaign i had 22000 per turn after conquering Russia Prussia Poland and another half a dozen small nations industrialized and everything(1774 after all)
    Last edited by The historian; 03-15-2009 at 01:41.

  19. #19
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I strongly recommend starting a war with NEW SPAIN, not Spain. This will bring Spain into the war but not the French, which means you can take Flanders later with no lashback from the French. Also, don't send gentlemen into french territory or they will be killed, either keep them at home for research points or go steal from westphlia/hannover. I lost 5 by 1710.

    South America and its islands are ripe and easy in the land wars. Keep a fleet handy to keep the Spanish and new spain at bay, but park it in a port and let the spanish, french and new spain spend their time and money chasing pirates. Trinidad makes for a good dock, but you can get docks on the various islands. The countries in south america grow fast and have many spots for towns to expand on. Send the Indians gifts and make alliances. Just be careful about adding colleges too soon, I went with churches first, to get some conversion, then built schools later.

    As far as trade spots go you need to send just about every ship you can muster. They need not even be trade ships, the point is just to capture the spot. I used a lot of damaged ships with only a few guns left from my early pirate fights. You will have to fight some pirates off, but do so preventatively to getyour ships to the spots, then play defensive......Pirates tend to attack trade routes, not the actual trade spots, so for the most part your indiamen etc will be safe once you can park them on all the good spots. If you do engage some pirates try to keep the battle away from trade spots so your weak trade ships dont reinforce, get sunk, and lose their spot to one of the many nations waiting nearby with ships.

    I'm not leading in prestige of any kind at turn year 44 on hardest/hardest, in fact i think im 2nd to last of major powers, but i am terrifying and spectacular and about to field the 1st first rate I believe. I've chosen and infastructure/save money route as opposed to conquering europe, but i suspect fast conquering would work too as i am now looking to expand in europe.... and wurtz, hannover and westphelia have 3-5 stacks of troops and they are all allies. Not looking forward to this fight, but Its either there, India or native north america. North America is not developed enough to make me much money at this point, and Murtha makes me 9k per turn on trade, so looks like it's gonna be a slugfest with westphelia and friends since none of them will trade with me.

    now if i could just figure out why i keep having gentleman spawn at india, where i have no college.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  20. #20

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    The problem with the 2 pirate islands are they aren't that rich. Each only has 1 plantation and nothing else. They each have a dockyard but conquering Flanders get you one. They're also much better defended than New Spain's territory.

    New Spain's territories barely have any defense. A 4-stack of line infantry/militia can just march up and conquer them all. Just replenish and move on to the next one while waiting to replenish. With the exception of Mexico and Bogota, you won't get much in tax income anyway so just cut taxes and let ports/towns grow. You'll be making most of your money in exports at the start of the game.

  21. #21
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadKow View Post
    I'm beginning to think i seriously stink at handling battles.
    On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
    Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
    By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
    Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.

    Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.

    buccaneers are a handful, expecially a bunch of them. On my false start I needed so many troops to take out the initial mob that the cost and time, imo, was not worth it. I also tried native melee guys who lost in straight 1v1 fights with buccs.


    I would suggest not focusing on the pirate islands too early as they keep france and spain busy. build a decent anti-pirate fleet to keep your trade lanes safe. i did the same as you, took trinidad early for the dock. but i left the northern state for decades, and it took me a full army of line infantry with 3 cab units to take out that mob when i finally did, and the battle was still very close.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  22. #22
    Warrior on the edge of time Member kitbogha's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Factions are generally not very tech-generous. I immediately researched plug bayonets and then ring bayonets, and the whole time be stealing other tech such as square formation and naval upgrades.

    How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
    Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
    I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
    Last edited by kitbogha; 03-17-2009 at 12:01. Reason: forgot stuff to add
    "I like a man who grins when he fights"
    Winston Churchill.
    "It is not sufficient that I suceed - all others must fail.”
    Genghis Khan

  23. #23
    Member Member MadKow's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Yesterday i tried the crush New Spain approach, and it certainly went very well. Up to a point.

    I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.

    On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.

    My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.

    Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.

  24. #24
    EB player Member Wausser's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by kitbogha View Post
    How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
    Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
    I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
    Send them into a school/college/university
    My Balloons:


    Playing as the Republiek der Zeven Verenigde Nederlanden

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  25. #25

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by kitbogha View Post
    I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
    Needs to be a rival school/college/university, not city. When you do you'll see the research tree like you do from your own city, but instead of showing how many turns it will take to research something it will show the % chance to steal the technology. You'll know if you get it at the beginning of your next turn. You either steal it, nothing happens, or get kicked out. I've never had a gentleman killed when he failed, I don't think it's possible. Even if you get kicked out you can go right back in and try again for the next turn.

    Aww, beaten in the same minute.
    Last edited by Gingivitis; 03-17-2009 at 17:30.

  26. #26
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by kitbogha View Post
    How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
    Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
    I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
    send them to an opposing school and the option shows up on the tool bar above the duel option. so far, on 2 vh/vh games i have yet to have a gentleman caught stealing and executed, he always gets away, however i think if he is caught and gets away his chances of stealing from that school are reduced.

    some countries will actively kill your visiting gentlemen.

    that being said, i find it far more beneficial to keep my boys in my schools on my turf so i can get their research point bonuses. the only ones i send to steal are ones that spawn in cities nowhere near my schools. they also get weapon-specific dueling bonuses, but i don't know how. the ones i park at my school have nothing like that, but the ones who travel do. i have yet to have a duel chance higher than 75%, so i don't duel much unless i have the 75 plus a weapon bonus
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  27. #27
    Warrior on the edge of time Member kitbogha's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wausser View Post
    Send them into a school/college/university
    Aha..............!
    Cheers Wausser, Gingivitis and Major Robert Dump. My tech theft can now begin. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! (laughs maniacally).
    Started the campaign. It looks promising. The Provinces do seem to print money for fun and those gunboat/trading ships (fluyts?) are great. Took advice and spammed them out for several turns and now have total dominance in the East Indies and Brazillian trading areas. You need to have some roaming hardcore pirate fighting fleets though as the AI starts using pirates to raid the trading lanes in areas where you have no presence. The AI does seem cleverer in Empire than in previous TW games. Which is nice. No-one wants to win too easily.
    Last edited by kitbogha; 03-18-2009 at 09:54. Reason: the grammar was absolutely appalling, my English teacher at school would 'ave done his flipping nut!
    "I like a man who grins when he fights"
    Winston Churchill.
    "It is not sufficient that I suceed - all others must fail.”
    Genghis Khan

  28. #28
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    as dutch i steal from westphelia, austria and prussia the most, france just has too many rakes and duelists for my tastes. also, try to stack your researchers according to bonuses if you have enough schools in a concentrated area....i have all my military studs in one school, and all my industrial studs in another....the gentlemen who suck get sent out to steal and duel

    even though i have no schools in cyclon, i have gentelmen spawn there, so i send them to india to steal, but there are no duel options with those nations because, im assuming, its a different culture with different values, and i think thats way cool, but when i do catch a euro gentelman in those territories he is as good as dead
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

  29. #29

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    I'm on turn 60+ now on my Dutch campaign and I've been browsing some other guides here. I'm wondering if cancelling trade with the Mughals on turn 1 and trading with another country is a good idea. They and the Maratha keep blockading each other's ports. Eventually, it seems the Maratha win this contest usually and end up conquering the Mughals' home province.

    Right now in my game, I'm still "trading" with the Mughals. We have an agreement and I'm gaining rep with them but we haven't really traded for 30+, maybe 40+ turns ever since their port got captured.

    Also, I started trading with Westphalia and Hannover on roughly turn 5 or so and had to bribe them for it. Should've done it on turn 1.

  30. #30

    Default Re: United Provinces (the Dutch)

    Quote Originally Posted by andrewt View Post
    I'm on turn 60+ now on my Dutch campaign and I've been browsing some other guides here. I'm wondering if cancelling trade with the Mughals on turn 1 and trading with another country is a good idea. They and the Maratha keep blockading each other's ports. Eventually, it seems the Maratha win this contest usually and end up conquering the Mughals' home province.

    Right now in my game, I'm still "trading" with the Mughals. We have an agreement and I'm gaining rep with them but we haven't really traded for 30+, maybe 40+ turns ever since their port got captured.

    Also, I started trading with Westphalia and Hannover on roughly turn 5 or so and had to bribe them for it. Should've done it on turn 1.
    I attacked the Mughal in the 1710s and traded with the Maratha -- the Mughal only have two ports, but some juicy resources in Punjab and Hindustan. The Maratha are more developed though, and I saw a big trade uptick after befriending them by destroying several of their enemy's armies. You need to get Carnatica to win, however, so if you don't want to buy it for 200,000 later on, it's a good place to attack early without dealing with European alliances.

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