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Thread: United Provinces (the Dutch)
I'm beginning to think i seriously stink at handling battles.
On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.
Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.
On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.
Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.
I attacked the southern one with I believe 3 units of line infantry and 4 units of militia. They attacked me after I landed and I took heavy losses. The ones on the northern part are easier. I conquered them after I beat most of the Spanish colonies. The pirates are better defended than just about everybody else there.
The key is to dominate trade early on and rack up alot of cash without fighting European powers until you have alot of money. Focusing on first the Islands in the new world occupied by pirates will help add trade routes and income. Those plantations bring in a bundle.
To my shame i must say i have lost my first game with them. Pure overconfidence.
I decided to play conquer America type of game.
Without trying to upsetting major powers so i just kept my allies and joined them in any fight.
Kept a full stack at home and the navy and the rest of the armies in the new world.
Turn 10 Treasury 410000 nothing to build or do with it tried buying provs from the friendly allied nations and Britain but it's impossible they would not take the money offered the British 25000 per turn for Jamaica for 20 turns they turned me down.
So while i was enjoying fighting the pirates and the Barbary states for fun, France DOW's my allies i DOW them in support, checked and saw Flanders(Spain) didn't join so went back to sipping tea at the palace. With my navy and colonial army took french Guyana and the french Caribbean in one turn I Then clicked end turn without a care in the world after all i was the just filthy rich i mean 55000 per turn income. Suddenly 3 french stacks appear at Amsterdam and attack and despite my brave defense i lose the Netherlands my only European possession And i lose the game
.
I could have probably brought the french army had i been able to negotiate i could have promised them heaven and earth.
This goes to shows money isn't everything.
And i discovered a new thing the colonies did not fight on neither Ceylon nor the recently conquered Caribbean. Just in case you don't know
The Duthc are probably the easiest faction to play with first turn brought me 14000 i was like
since in my previous Swedish campaign i had 22000 per turn after conquering Russia Prussia Poland and another half a dozen small nations industrialized and everything(1774 after all)
I decided to play conquer America type of game.
Without trying to upsetting major powers so i just kept my allies and joined them in any fight.
Kept a full stack at home and the navy and the rest of the armies in the new world.
Turn 10 Treasury 410000 nothing to build or do with it tried buying provs from the friendly allied nations and Britain but it's impossible they would not take the money offered the British 25000 per turn for Jamaica for 20 turns they turned me down.
So while i was enjoying fighting the pirates and the Barbary states for fun, France DOW's my allies i DOW them in support, checked and saw Flanders(Spain) didn't join so went back to sipping tea at the palace. With my navy and colonial army took french Guyana and the french Caribbean in one turn I Then clicked end turn without a care in the world after all i was the just filthy rich i mean 55000 per turn income. Suddenly 3 french stacks appear at Amsterdam and attack and despite my brave defense i lose the Netherlands my only European possession And i lose the game
.I could have probably brought the french army had i been able to negotiate i could have promised them heaven and earth.
This goes to shows money isn't everything.
And i discovered a new thing the colonies did not fight on neither Ceylon nor the recently conquered Caribbean. Just in case you don't know
The Duthc are probably the easiest faction to play with first turn brought me 14000 i was like
since in my previous Swedish campaign i had 22000 per turn after conquering Russia Prussia Poland and another half a dozen small nations industrialized and everything(1774 after all)I strongly recommend starting a war with NEW SPAIN, not Spain. This will bring Spain into the war but not the French, which means you can take Flanders later with no lashback from the French. Also, don't send gentlemen into french territory or they will be killed, either keep them at home for research points or go steal from westphlia/hannover. I lost 5 by 1710.
South America and its islands are ripe and easy in the land wars. Keep a fleet handy to keep the Spanish and new spain at bay, but park it in a port and let the spanish, french and new spain spend their time and money chasing pirates. Trinidad makes for a good dock, but you can get docks on the various islands. The countries in south america grow fast and have many spots for towns to expand on. Send the Indians gifts and make alliances. Just be careful about adding colleges too soon, I went with churches first, to get some conversion, then built schools later.
As far as trade spots go you need to send just about every ship you can muster. They need not even be trade ships, the point is just to capture the spot. I used a lot of damaged ships with only a few guns left from my early pirate fights. You will have to fight some pirates off, but do so preventatively to getyour ships to the spots, then play defensive......Pirates tend to attack trade routes, not the actual trade spots, so for the most part your indiamen etc will be safe once you can park them on all the good spots. If you do engage some pirates try to keep the battle away from trade spots so your weak trade ships dont reinforce, get sunk, and lose their spot to one of the many nations waiting nearby with ships.
I'm not leading in prestige of any kind at turn year 44 on hardest/hardest, in fact i think im 2nd to last of major powers, but i am terrifying and spectacular and about to field the 1st first rate I believe. I've chosen and infastructure/save money route as opposed to conquering europe, but i suspect fast conquering would work too as i am now looking to expand in europe.... and wurtz, hannover and westphelia have 3-5 stacks of troops and they are all allies. Not looking forward to this fight, but Its either there, India or native north america. North America is not developed enough to make me much money at this point, and Murtha makes me 9k per turn on trade, so looks like it's gonna be a slugfest with westphelia and friends since none of them will trade with me.
now if i could just figure out why i keep having gentleman spawn at india, where i have no college.
South America and its islands are ripe and easy in the land wars. Keep a fleet handy to keep the Spanish and new spain at bay, but park it in a port and let the spanish, french and new spain spend their time and money chasing pirates. Trinidad makes for a good dock, but you can get docks on the various islands. The countries in south america grow fast and have many spots for towns to expand on. Send the Indians gifts and make alliances. Just be careful about adding colleges too soon, I went with churches first, to get some conversion, then built schools later.
As far as trade spots go you need to send just about every ship you can muster. They need not even be trade ships, the point is just to capture the spot. I used a lot of damaged ships with only a few guns left from my early pirate fights. You will have to fight some pirates off, but do so preventatively to getyour ships to the spots, then play defensive......Pirates tend to attack trade routes, not the actual trade spots, so for the most part your indiamen etc will be safe once you can park them on all the good spots. If you do engage some pirates try to keep the battle away from trade spots so your weak trade ships dont reinforce, get sunk, and lose their spot to one of the many nations waiting nearby with ships.
I'm not leading in prestige of any kind at turn year 44 on hardest/hardest, in fact i think im 2nd to last of major powers, but i am terrifying and spectacular and about to field the 1st first rate I believe. I've chosen and infastructure/save money route as opposed to conquering europe, but i suspect fast conquering would work too as i am now looking to expand in europe.... and wurtz, hannover and westphelia have 3-5 stacks of troops and they are all allies. Not looking forward to this fight, but Its either there, India or native north america. North America is not developed enough to make me much money at this point, and Murtha makes me 9k per turn on trade, so looks like it's gonna be a slugfest with westphelia and friends since none of them will trade with me.
now if i could just figure out why i keep having gentleman spawn at india, where i have no college.
The problem with the 2 pirate islands are they aren't that rich. Each only has 1 plantation and nothing else. They each have a dockyard but conquering Flanders get you one. They're also much better defended than New Spain's territory.
New Spain's territories barely have any defense. A 4-stack of line infantry/militia can just march up and conquer them all. Just replenish and move on to the next one while waiting to replenish. With the exception of Mexico and Bogota, you won't get much in tax income anyway so just cut taxes and let ports/towns grow. You'll be making most of your money in exports at the start of the game.
New Spain's territories barely have any defense. A 4-stack of line infantry/militia can just march up and conquer them all. Just replenish and move on to the next one while waiting to replenish. With the exception of Mexico and Bogota, you won't get much in tax income anyway so just cut taxes and let ports/towns grow. You'll be making most of your money in exports at the start of the game.
Originally Posted by MadKow:
I'm beginning to think i seriously stink at handling battles.
On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.
Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.
I'm beginning to think i seriously stink at handling battles.
On my several false starts as the Dutch, i always take a lot of time and troops just to capture the pirate regions.
Normally i try to do it with 6 line infantry units and a hastily recruited general and on M/M. I capture the southern one no problem, but the northern one, where you face 10-12 pirate mobs and buccaneers always gives me a lot of trouble.
By then i have researched plug bayonet.But even with this it never seems to work.
Of course, i could wait a couple more turns and strike with 4 more units, but it seems to me a better player could pull it off.
Anyway, although there is a temptation to turtle with the UP, im beginning to think aggressive strategies always work better. Especially because your scientific base eventually becomes a limiting factor, with only one place of learning.
buccaneers are a handful, expecially a bunch of them. On my false start I needed so many troops to take out the initial mob that the cost and time, imo, was not worth it. I also tried native melee guys who lost in straight 1v1 fights with buccs.
I would suggest not focusing on the pirate islands too early as they keep france and spain busy. build a decent anti-pirate fleet to keep your trade lanes safe. i did the same as you, took trinidad early for the dock. but i left the northern state for decades, and it took me a full army of line infantry with 3 cab units to take out that mob when i finally did, and the battle was still very close.
Originally Posted by :
Factions are generally not very tech-generous. I immediately researched plug bayonets and then ring bayonets, and the whole time be stealing other tech such as square formation and naval upgrades.
Factions are generally not very tech-generous. I immediately researched plug bayonets and then ring bayonets, and the whole time be stealing other tech such as square formation and naval upgrades.
How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
Yesterday i tried the crush New Spain approach, and it certainly went very well. Up to a point.
I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.
On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.
My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.
Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.
I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.
On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.
My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.
Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.
Originally Posted by MadKow:
Yesterday i tried the crush New Spain approach, and it certainly went very well. Up to a point.
I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.
On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.
My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.
Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.
I used to think that remaining move points affected my ability to intercept, but now I have noticed that enemy armies sometimes walk right past my armies who have full points on end turn...its really irritating when one unit razes three settlements when you have defensive troops everywhereYesterday i tried the crush New Spain approach, and it certainly went very well. Up to a point.
I was already in possession of the Spanish Main, and was about to start to capture Cuba and St Domingo from the Spanish, when a full stack of Spanish troops came to threaten Brussels. I prepared for the defense, but the sneaky bastards bypassed Brussels avoiding my zones of control and captured the poorly defended capital, Amsterdam, thus ending my glorious campaign.
On this game, around 1710, i was second in prestige, the leader being England. Their advantage came mostly from a HUGE score on enlightenment. This is my main concern with the dutch: The tech race can be tricky to keep up if you choose to keep the European theater as free from conflict as possible.
My plan was to capture the whole Caribbean and use the land captured from the pirates to trade for peace with the spanish and french. But i could never try it.
Maybe today ill go back to a previous save game and try to save the Netherlands.
On the crush New Spain approach either hit Flanders very, very early after Spain declares war on you, or just play defensive at your capital and wait for spain to make a foolhearty attack. Keep a rake or priest around the Paris region to see if Spain is sending up and armies to reinforce Flanders, but they will likely not be able to afford it if you can manage to take their southern american holdings, especially mexico, thats a huge money machine. If Britain joins the war with you use their nearby ships to back you up in naval battles and head down the atlantic to blockade the spanish ports. This chokes Spain to the point that the only thing they can afford to do is make stacks of guerilla troops and wait for morocco to attack
The AI seems to go for your capital only when there is ( almoast ) no defending forces in my games. Is this the case for you as well?
I've started another campaign (long, 40 provinces to win), and am playing very diffferently to how i did in the report at the start of this thread.
Swapping Mughals for Ottomans as trade partners early on is going well so far.
Have complete monopoly over trade in the East Indies and overbearing majorities in all three other trade areas. (Spam Fluyts & merchantmen in your first turns).
Considered appropriating Westphalia and then Hannover, but their starting armies are as good as - if not better than your force in Amsterdam.
Instead invaded new-andalucia (with 6 line inf) and took Flanders (with the start-up army) on the turn following the declaration of war.
After taking Flanders, I made peace with Spain -so as to focus on new-spain alone, but this hasn't panned out as I'd hoped as new-spain has now been incorporated into Spain proper, who i'm still at peace with.
Pirates next i guess...
On trade, i've found it hard to secure trade rights with Austria in the past. They are certainly a more reluctant ally than britain. In my previous game, i had to shell out 10k to get the deal (which pays off quickly) -anyone get a deal for less?
Stealing tech from the german states is a fruitful strategy, there are about 4 school/colleges within a turn's march, so it's easy to move about and cherry pick.
Does anyone know of a way to increase a gentlemen's likelyhood of succeeeding at tech stealing? I've not yet noticed an apptitude/trait that increases with instances of academic kleptomania...
Swapping Mughals for Ottomans as trade partners early on is going well so far.
Have complete monopoly over trade in the East Indies and overbearing majorities in all three other trade areas. (Spam Fluyts & merchantmen in your first turns).
Considered appropriating Westphalia and then Hannover, but their starting armies are as good as - if not better than your force in Amsterdam.
Instead invaded new-andalucia (with 6 line inf) and took Flanders (with the start-up army) on the turn following the declaration of war.
After taking Flanders, I made peace with Spain -so as to focus on new-spain alone, but this hasn't panned out as I'd hoped as new-spain has now been incorporated into Spain proper, who i'm still at peace with.
Pirates next i guess...
On trade, i've found it hard to secure trade rights with Austria in the past. They are certainly a more reluctant ally than britain. In my previous game, i had to shell out 10k to get the deal (which pays off quickly) -anyone get a deal for less?
Stealing tech from the german states is a fruitful strategy, there are about 4 school/colleges within a turn's march, so it's easy to move about and cherry pick.
Does anyone know of a way to increase a gentlemen's likelyhood of succeeeding at tech stealing? I've not yet noticed an apptitude/trait that increases with instances of academic kleptomania...
Originally Posted by kitbogha:
How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
Send them into a school/college/universityHow do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
Originally Posted by Wausser:
Send them into a school/college/university
Aha..............!Send them into a school/college/university
Cheers Wausser, Gingivitis and Major Robert Dump. My tech theft can now begin. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! (laughs maniacally).
Started the campaign. It looks promising. The Provinces do seem to print money for fun and those gunboat/trading ships (fluyts?) are great. Took advice and spammed them out for several turns and now have total dominance in the East Indies and Brazillian trading areas. You need to have some roaming hardcore pirate fighting fleets though as the AI starts using pirates to raid the trading lanes in areas where you have no presence. The AI does seem cleverer in Empire than in previous TW games. Which is nice. No-one wants to win too easily.
as dutch i steal from westphelia, austria and prussia the most, france just has too many rakes and duelists for my tastes. also, try to stack your researchers according to bonuses if you have enough schools in a concentrated area....i have all my military studs in one school, and all my industrial studs in another....the gentlemen who suck get sent out to steal and duel
even though i have no schools in cyclon, i have gentelmen spawn there, so i send them to india to steal, but there are no duel options with those nations because, im assuming, its a different culture with different values, and i think thats way cool, but when i do catch a euro gentelman in those territories he is as good as dead
even though i have no schools in cyclon, i have gentelmen spawn there, so i send them to india to steal, but there are no duel options with those nations because, im assuming, its a different culture with different values, and i think thats way cool, but when i do catch a euro gentelman in those territories he is as good as dead
I'm on turn 60+ now on my Dutch campaign and I've been browsing some other guides here. I'm wondering if cancelling trade with the Mughals on turn 1 and trading with another country is a good idea. They and the Maratha keep blockading each other's ports. Eventually, it seems the Maratha win this contest usually and end up conquering the Mughals' home province.
Right now in my game, I'm still "trading" with the Mughals. We have an agreement and I'm gaining rep with them but we haven't really traded for 30+, maybe 40+ turns ever since their port got captured.
Also, I started trading with Westphalia and Hannover on roughly turn 5 or so and had to bribe them for it. Should've done it on turn 1.
Right now in my game, I'm still "trading" with the Mughals. We have an agreement and I'm gaining rep with them but we haven't really traded for 30+, maybe 40+ turns ever since their port got captured.
Also, I started trading with Westphalia and Hannover on roughly turn 5 or so and had to bribe them for it. Should've done it on turn 1.
Originally Posted by kitbogha:
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
Needs to be a rival school/college/university, not city. When you do you'll see the research tree like you do from your own city, but instead of showing how many turns it will take to research something it will show the % chance to steal the technology. You'll know if you get it at the beginning of your next turn. You either steal it, nothing happens, or get kicked out. I've never had a gentleman killed when he failed, I don't think it's possible. Even if you get kicked out you can go right back in and try again for the next turn.I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
Aww, beaten in the same minute.
Originally Posted by kitbogha:
How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
send them to an opposing school and the option shows up on the tool bar above the duel option. so far, on 2 vh/vh games i have yet to have a gentleman caught stealing and executed, he always gets away, however i think if he is caught and gets away his chances of stealing from that school are reduced.How do you nick tech? Probably tells you in the manual but well, I'm a man so can't be doing with reading that....
Just about to start as the Provinces. Looking forward to it too. I have blooded myself on a couple of short GB campaigns. Thanks for all the tips, Guild members can always be relied on.
I thought that sending your gentleman into a rival city enabled you to steal their tech but it doesn't seem to be happening.......
some countries will actively kill your visiting gentlemen.
that being said, i find it far more beneficial to keep my boys in my schools on my turf so i can get their research point bonuses. the only ones i send to steal are ones that spawn in cities nowhere near my schools. they also get weapon-specific dueling bonuses, but i don't know how. the ones i park at my school have nothing like that, but the ones who travel do. i have yet to have a duel chance higher than 75%, so i don't duel much unless i have the 75 plus a weapon bonus
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