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shlin and W_E took up several posts discussing the formating of Ares' role PM and the intro line. They were the target of my response.

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Hence my comment about strawmen. It's not townie to reply to the less important arguments and ignore the major ones.

Reenk almost certainly provided the mafia with fakeclaims. I went over the reasons why. This means that he wrote the townie pm that ares posted, i.e. it is not a forgery. When W_E's pointed out the lack of greeting I theorized that ares's pm had the greeting, then the mafia pm, and then the townie pm. This is only convincing in a confirmation bias way as GH pointed out, but it is still something worth noting.

So why would you insist that aren's pm couldn't be a forgery and spend time attacking the formatting theory which had already been debunked by four other people? You are being selective in which arguments you reply to.

The point of the discussing the role pm is that at best, it does nothing to show his innocence. That leads you back to your claim that there can't possibly be a watcher role in this game. There isn't any basis for that claim.

Here's how it is:

Scenario A-1: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we lynch ares--we lynch mafia
Scenario A-2: Ares is being framed--Ares is innocent--we lynch ares--we lynch a townie
Scenario A-3: Ares is being framed--Ares is still guilty--we lynch ares--we lynch a SK/what have you


Scenario B-1: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we let ares live--ares is mafia--we lose
Scenario B-2: There is a watcher role--it caught ares--we let ares live--the watcher role is forced to reveal and dies the next night.
Scenario B-3: Ares is being framed--Ares is innocent----we let ares live--we lynch some other townie (95%)
Scenario B-4: Ares is being framed--Ares is still guilty--we let ares live--we lynch a townie instead of a SK/what have you (95%)


By not lynching Ares we would have everything to lose and very little to gain. Unless you have some compelling case you want to make against someone? Don't let your desire to not be fooled by a frame job dissuade you from making the right choice. It's the correct decision with the information at hand.

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On the Ares lynch:

pros:
WIFOM goes away
avoid lynching a valuable pro town role. Ares is just a builder and thus expandable.
Potential mafia lynch

cons:
Framing possibilities
Waste of a lynch/stifles conversation.

The PM analysis is useless like so many others have said. However, Areses responses seem out of character and inconsistent. For that alone he would make a good lynch. The writeup incrimination is just an added bonus.

Vote: Ares

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No.
Yes.
Maybe.
I have no idea.

I've skipped about 20 posts. I shall continue to follow this game however.

Who was I? I was a secret role. I had no abilities, save things that may pop up.

I may reveal my role, just no direct quotes, according to the PM from reenk.

I am the village idiot! I ask lots of questions and annoy people a lot. They try to kill me before the god Pisuf takes me away and puts me somewhere else, thus continuing the cycle. This time, Pisuf got his powers taken away by the other gods, so being his chosen one doesnt help anymore (He considered me the greatest human alive)

My battle rating was 1, my victory was outlasting the usurpers.

I was given a cover role, that of a Farmer.

If there are other farmers, when/if they reveal I can verify the PM.

In the PM which Reenk told me I was dead, he said that at least my special ability came into play.

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I believe the reason Tincow and Sasaki are clashing is because you both have complete different assumptions of the write up, Sasaki takes it the straight forward, perhaps logical way, Tincow believes it is set up and at this stage has every reason to believe so, however I think your both acting normally IMHO.

If Pevergreen comes here and says the person who kills him is revealed then The result is still unclear as we don't know if we can someone editing the write up, with Pever's personality I'm doubt his role pm would be that straight forward either, I'm not taking anything for granted on this one, but I owuld mention this wouldn't I? It's my life on the line afterall.

Now back with roleplaying


Please don't kill me, I love you all too much! Let God take me instead, yes yes happy thoughts happy thoughts....



edit: hmmmm, ok posted too late...urrrrr

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Ok im packing my bags before someone puts a knife through my heart

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VOTE ARES

Whilst I am a simple humble man who wishes that we could all live in peace with each other this evidence againest Ares is too much for anyone to ignore fairwell my brother. May you find the peace in death that you failed to find in life.

Now that this is over let us pause for a minute silence in mermoriom of our dearly deperated scribe and idiot.

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Are you serious? *I* have been ignoring major arguments? I was the first person who had the guts to stick his neck out for Ares when he was about to be bandwagoned into an insta-lynch. I've been providing a good deal of arguments for my position this entire day phase. Simply making one post which concentrates on a lesser issue doesn't change the fact that I've been arguing heavily this entire time.

WHOA. WHOA. WHOA.

I claimed "there can't possibly be a watcher role in this game"? You accuse me about going after a straw man, and then you just fabricate a statement? What I said was that a watcher role would presumably only get the information in a night result PM and would have to disclose it just like any other detective. I never said that there wasn't a watcher in this game, just that the stone which showed Ares did not seem like it was the result of a watcher.

Now who isn't reading carefully?

I am waiting to here what pevergreen has to say before I decide on Ares. Ares already has more than enough votes to get him lynched, so my vote doesn't make a difference. I'm keeping it on FH for the time being in the hopes that it will encourage him to speak more.

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This may be the record of day 1 discussion

I'll pick the easy way by following the bandwagon. The evidence points straight at Ares that it even creates a WIFOM situation.

Vote: Ares

Rather then thinking too much about it and letting him go, I say we lynch him away as we have nothing ales to go on with. Aside from FHs post.

btw I believe "The Watcher" refers to Reenk from his role in Fillet Royale.

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pevergreen has already spoken on the issue he was the village idiot and in his death P.M Reenk said this

n the PM which Reenk told me I was dead, he said that at least my special ability came into play

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OK then.....

glances at post 394#....

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Sorry, got blinded by Sasaki's post and didn't even see that. Will comment later, going out for dinner now.

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Well, I guess defending Ares is pointless for you now.....

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What, about the me losing my dirt if I were to rise a rank or the comment about the second killer?

Considering that I actually said something about that there was more than 1 kill rather than others (such as GH) just voting without adding anything to the vote or yet some others who just vote and have a different one liner to go with it doesn't seem exactly scummy to me.

If you are talking about me not posting much, feel free to use Sigurd analysis on my post count across games and roles.

Vote me all you want if you think my vote on Ares is somehow framing me.

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I find TinCow's defense of Ares a little strange, but I do not feel strongly yet that he would be like a mafia partner. I seriously doubt the mafia would risk defending their partner this early, but I can't see how Ares could be innocent. Most plausible explanation so far that I have seen was that... stone thing? might have been planted there by the mafia to frame Ares. To me, TinCow does not have the scum vibe, otherwise this is an incredibly risky tactic.

It may be worth solving this mystery once and for all by investigating Ares, dead or alive. I do not want him to escape from death as mafia, nor do I want a frame job as good as this to screw with us all game.

We need to solve this conclusively before we can move on. In the meantime, we can look at FactionHeir, I haven't played many games with him but you other guys can read him better than me. Or anyone else you want to look at.

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Alright I shall Vote: Ares.

I'm not entirely sure about the evidence that it had in the night write-up - it seems just far too bizarre to be true. However, at the same time I don't believe Ares' reveal is legitimate - he left out the welcome message at the start, which indicates to me that he was deleting a PM beforehand.

A question to pever though - you say you were given a cover PM. Was this within the same PM, but written after it? If so it could help to verify Sasaki's idea in regards to Ares' PM ordering.
To be honest - I was going to use "These questions are annoying me" as an excuse for a random vote on you first round.

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Good thing there was few players defending Ares. Otherwise there wouldn't be discussions but just pile of players voting him with short posts.

I say those who defended Ares did so because no one ales was. And I don't think thats scummy at all.

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Forgive me for double posting. But I too was given a cover pm and that was written within the same PM but written after.

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o really? care to share?

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I think pevergreen cleared why this is not a frame job.
to which pevergreen responded.... it had something to do with him losing of course.... but at least it gave away who killed him

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Feel free to.
You can claim it as WIFOM of course, but in games where I have no role, I am a lot less active than in games where I do, contrary to most other mafia players. As you can see, I am less active than general, maybe to hide that I'm scum, you know.
The second fact being that I sometimes like to drop hints about my role in the first post after roles are given out. I mentioned loving my dirt this time around. If you then look at WE's farmer role PM, you'll notice that it mentions having a lot of dirt. Since he already posted his role PM, posting my identical one could be again taken as WIFOM/Scummy behavior as I could just have copied his.

Ergo I am guilty

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I rather not

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Looks like we might have our next lynch....(after Ares)

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FoS: Beefy

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Why is having a cover role that suspecious?

I am hated by most of peoples here. I'm only doing what is necessary for my survival.

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OK time for confession ares.....

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Meh, FH I don't think you're guilty. But I liked the pressure town was putting on you. All this stuff on Ares might be a great thing, but the game isn't over and we need to question people besides him.

You're fine in my book. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, TBH, but frankly, anytime the town decides to question someone I am allllllll for it.

edit: saw Ares' confession. Can't say I am surprised. Everything he said to me in private smelt of fish.

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You really are unlucky as a serial killer first Blackadder and now this oh well here is hoping the lynching of you turns out better in this game then it did in Blackadder.

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Um, okay...

But why would you confess? What is there to gain in it?

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unvote: Askthepizzaguy
vote: Ares

There is zero reason why we need Ares around, now. A confession is a confession.

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