The Settlement [Concluded]

[TinCow]

Well, I can report that I now have two decent pro-town roles revealing themselves to me, as well as minor characters.

And how do you know that one or more of those people isn't a mole who's trying to infiltrate whatever group you're assembling? Townie groups = townie death.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Does no one even care that Sasaki pulled a fast one and lied to me about his duel strength?

I care!

Because, as an innocent mason about to DIE, my partner has asked for as much info as I can get.

1) I don't like when townies form private groups where they gather information. For one thing it takes a lot of the fun out of the game (it was the reason I switched sides in capo II for example) and for another...

2) "private" townie groups usually end up being infiltrated. The risk is 10x as much in a game with this many roles. Can the mafia infiltrate the group? Is their a role whose sole purpose is to create mischief? Can the mafia recruit from the previously innocent? Is there a role that can switch sides?

3) I don't trust your judgement on what to do with said information. You tend to blow things out of proportion.

This is important to remember in future rounds. I can't come up with an explanation for Ares' reveals which don't make him a likely threat to the town and worthwhile lynch. However, we should not automatically assume that he is either a serial killer or a mafioso at this point. He could be either, or he could be some other role of which we are unaware. Picking a specific role and calling him that for the rest of the game risks cementing potentially faulty assumptions.

You would be the one at risk if we assumed Ares had a partner at some point...I can see why you wouldn't want to much weight to be placed on that. You didn't seem like your usual self in your defense of ares.

[Askthepizzaguy]

And how do you know that one or more of those people isn't a mole who's trying to infiltrate whatever group you're assembling? Townie groups = townie death.

Those people who claimed roles, if they are found to be liars, will be exposed later on in the game by my partner. It's a very simple matter of directing the investigator to check their stories. So anyone who lied to me already, is toast.

Even lies are valuable clues, TinCow. You know this to be true.



Some of you underestimate the power of cheesy goodness to expose the traitors in our midst, apparently.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Those people who claimed roles, if they are found to be liars, will be exposed later on in the game by my partner. It's a very simple matter of directing the investigator to check their stories. So anyone who lied to me already, is toast.

The innocent investigator

The innocent investigator who gets 100% accurate results because you know for a fact that there aren't any godfather type roles in this game?

The innocent investigator who gets 100% accurate results because you know for a fact that it isn't possible for alignment changes to happen?

The innocent investigator who you know for a fact isn't going to die tonight?

[TinCow]

You would be the one at risk if we assumed Ares had a partner at some point...I can see why you wouldn't want to much weight to be placed on that. You didn't seem like your usual self in your defense of ares.

I am perfectly comfortable with my defense of Ares, as I thought it was the right thing to do at the time. If you find scum in that, so be it. I stand by my actions.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ah, Sasaki... if my blade even nicks your skin tonight, I will revel in your blood being spilt.



Just do a guy a favor and finish me off quickly, don't dishonor me by leaving me wounded. If you must have this little duel of yours, it had better have a clean ending, or I will come back to haunt you.

[Yoyoma1910]

Does no one even care that Sasaki pulled a fast one and lied to me about his duel strength?





Why do you think I don't know what a mason is? Did you read the exchange I had with White_Eyes? HE didn't know, I was the one who educated him about it. Boy, some people write me off as guilty or unaware, and they didn't take the time to read something that would immediately disprove that.



Special role, NO. Fake role PM, YES. For really, really obvious reasons, too.



Because, as an innocent mason about to DIE, my partner has asked for as much info as I can get. And you know I am innocent, or I would have full reason to back down from Sasaki's lying, lying, lying challenge.





I'll repeat, because it bears repeating:

1) Because you're not playing a very good mason.

2) You're more likely to get special roles killed... than, say, catch a chicken.

3) Well, no one has apparently targeted you yet... even though you think they are about to at any moment... edit:well except for the whole duel thing. Maybe it will rain.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Even though the energy is wasted on some, others have placed their confidence in me and shall not be disappointed. I will protect their identities.

Since I cannot convince you with words, only actions, that is what I will do. Good day, sirs.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I need more from you.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and risk a lot on your trustworthiness (a big risk, historically speaking! ) or at least the entertainment value of what you were offering (you don't make games boring! )

But because you are now suggesting your duel strength is different from what you suggested earlier, I need more from you. I want to know what you know, now. Otherwise I take our dealings public. There can be no middle road, here. Either you trust me or you do not, and if you do not, then I cannot help you.

Go ahead, make your choice. Sorry to be so insistent. But if you aren't who you said you were, then I have every reason, and all the evidence I need, to take you down.

Clock is ticking.

I already proved my worth to you by not exposing you immediately. So either you trust me or you don't.

I can back out of the challenge, but I am trying to play your little game. Unfortunately, this ride costs more than you're offering.

I'm a cultist bent on destroying the town

I win by killing everyone except my recruits.

Sasaki

And you spread this wonderful thing via duels, I take it. Does it work 100%, or is there a risk of death? And do you have a partner? (Don't worry, you don't have to tell me who it is yet)

Don't trust pizza in the slightest--he doesn't seem to be up to much good imo. I send him a message pretending like tincow was my mafia partner to see if he'd take the bait, and then another pretending to be cult recruiter. This was the latest. He seems to want to join a cult that is "bent on destroying the town". My emphasis in his last message, notice the "yet" and his asking if he becomes a cultist from the duel.

[Askthepizzaguy]

\

1) Because you're not playing a very good mason.

That's your opinion, and it also happens to be wrong. I already accomplished a game objective for my team, the masons, who are pro-town. So I will just grin and grin every time you make such an unqualified accusation.

2) You're more likely to get special roles killed... than, say, catch a chicken.

I would fire back that you're more likely to randomly LYNCH the special roles than say... catch a mafia.

3) Well, no one has apparently targeted you yet... even though you think they are about to at any moment... edit:well except for the whole duel thing. Maybe it will rain.

No one has targeted me yet, except for that one fellow. Good point.

____________-


And Sasaki proves himself to be a liar, once again

Challenge: unaccepted.


I'm up to no good, but Sasaki claimed to be a cultist in private and I decided to humor him to see how it would go. Well at least we know that Sasaki isn't a cultist.

And town shoots itself in the foot once again. So now, Sasaki discredits a mason intentionally. Stellar play. When the game is over and my alignment is revealed, I'll accept your apologies.




And yeah, I'll cop to that, Sasaki. I did want to join your cult, because I was actually honoured you would pick me. But it didn't happen, did it?

You basically just proved my innocence, because yeah, I was absolutely ready to betray the town by being recruited as a cultist, thus proving I am not already a mafioso. And since your claim was bogus, I am still a townie.





What exactly were you trying to prove with your shenanigans? That I would betray the town if a cult member had the cajones to approach me and ask? SURE I WOULD, what player here wouldn't? That's called having fun.

I did this before in You Can't Win. I was offered a chance to join the mafia and I did, and I was not anti-town in that one.




Boy, you guys really never cease to amaze me. You've proven nothing, Sasaki, except that you should never be trusted, and that I am indeed innocent in THIS game, even if I am generally willing to do an alignment shift.



Congratulations.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The entire exchange, exposed. In spoilers, to protect your eyes from Sasaki's forked tongue.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Our distancing seems to be going well. Don't want to respond to pizza's accusations myself though (looks suspicious), you mind stepping in on my behalf?

Sasaki

LOLz

You didn't post it in the thread...I suspected as much. How would you feel about joining a cult?

Sasaki

I feel like you're trying to get bait to expose me to the town as being disloyal somehow. Sort of like role fishing; you want to show me as being eager to abandon the townie cause. However, I have a much more reasonable message for you;

(was writing this when you did)

If you truly think I am scum, make a case, or ignore me.

However, if you're a townie and I'm a townie, I'd rather have you alive. I made a case against you. If you have some sort of valued role, I need to know. If you don't have a valuable pro-town role, I think you're a safe lynch based on your behavior.

Now, do we work together, or are we adversaries? Do you trust me or not? I've no reason to trust you yet. Make this pm public, too, for all I care. You have my permission. I know I am on the chopping block soon, and it will only signal that you're totally uncooperative.

If you have a role, whatever your role is, either trust me with it, or we should just keep our debate public.

I need to know your duel strength, your alignment, role, whatever you want to share with me. You can choose to share it, you can lie to me, or you can ignore me. The game is yours... make your move.

You know as well as I do that exposing this message will not get me lynched any faster; that's a foregone conclusion anyway. I am not mafia, so... trust me or don't.

More:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ok, enough inbox spam... you haven't read my other message yet.

You must know already that I am a Mason. Right now, I haven't told anyone what you said to me in private, nor have I gone after you in the thread for it. You could easily dismiss this as games to mess with me if I made this public anyway.

Still, I must admit I'm a bit too much of a Sasaki Kojiro fan not to bite. What's your big secret, and am I on candid camera? *still looks skeptical*

Just what are you up to? I suppose this round could get even more interesting. Show me the cards.

Accept my challenge. Unless your talk of self lynching was all for show and you aren't willing to take a 50/50 shot...we should have the same rating.

Sasaki

Very well, what the heck do I have to lose.

Proper form is Accept: [name], don't think reenk will be a stickler but are you trying to get off on a technicality? Because that would be hilarious.

See you on the battlefield...

Sasaki

Why do you want to kill me so much???



I have a 2 for a duel rating. I'm not sure what my slaughter will accomplish, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. It's more entertaining that way.

I'm curious to see the duel system and I don't want the rest of day one to be a letdown...nothing to do now that ares is a goner.

Sasaki

At least when I am dead no one can claim that I was mafia.

I'm going to wait to change my format, otherwise it looks suspicious that I would suddenly get that info.

And more:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I need more from you.

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, and risk a lot on your trustworthiness (a big risk, historically speaking! ) or at least the entertainment value of what you were offering (you don't make games boring! )

But because you are now suggesting your duel strength is different from what you suggested earlier, I need more from you. I want to know what you know, now. Otherwise I take our dealings public. There can be no middle road, here. Either you trust me or you do not, and if you do not, then I cannot help you.

Go ahead, make your choice. Sorry to be so insistent. But if you aren't who you said you were, then I have every reason, and all the evidence I need, to take you down.

Clock is ticking.

I already proved my worth to you by not exposing you immediately. So either you trust me or you don't.

I can back out of the challenge, but I am trying to play your little game. Unfortunately, this ride costs more than you're offering.

I'm a cultist bent on destroying the town

I win by killing everyone except my recruits.

Sasaki

And you spread this wonderful thing via duels, I take it. Does it work 100%, or is there a risk of death? And do you have a partner? (Don't worry, you don't have to tell me who it is yet)

Keep this in mind, gents: Most of you know this already, but not only can you not trust Sasaki to recruit you honestly, but you can't trust him in general. And, as far as this game is concerned, he's a bad townie.

I won't hide my attempt at a betrayal, because frankly, if you wouldn't accept an offer to join a cult, then you're just no fun, people. And if I were attempting to betray the town, I would have to be on their side to begin with. I have nothing to gain by being mafia and jumping ship.


Truly, truly entertaining stuff.

Reject: Sasaki Kojiro

to make it all nice and official-like.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

And yeah, I'll cop to that, Sasaki. I did want to join your cult, because I was actually honoured you would pick me. But it didn't happen, did it?

If anyone doubts that trusting pizzaguy with townie information is a good idea you now have proof of these two things:

1) He would shift alignments if asked, hence trusting him with info is bad
2) He believes someone is a role based of off nothing but this:

You didn't post it in the thread...I suspected as much. How would you feel about joining a cult?

Sasaki

...

I'm a cultist bent on destroying the town

I win by killing everyone except my recruits.

Sasaki

Which makes me very unwilling to trust the innocence of his "pro-town contacts"


I don't have anything against you, I'm just very against the idea of a private townie info group, for obvious reasons, and you just happened to be trying to start one.

Oh and if Reenk allows "unaccepting", particularly after 24 hours has passed, I shall be sorely disappointed

I won't hide my attempt at a betrayal, because frankly, if you wouldn't accept an offer to join a cult, then you're just no fun, people.

Agreed

But you do see how that fits in with my argument against sending all information to one person...

[Askthepizzaguy]

You know what, Sasaki? Taking risks is part of the game. If you don't like it, that's not my issue.

And, for fun, and since I AM PRO-TOWN, and since you just hampered all my efforts so far with your ploy which totally backfired and hurt two pro-townies, I'll re-accept your silly duel.

Town won't be wasting a lynch on me.

Accept: Sasaki Kojiro.

This time, it's a grudge match. No holds barred, and I will endeavor to make you squeal.

Cheers.

[shlin28]

Did you guys not read the "Edicts by the most Mighty Priest King (as Interepreted by his Loyal Soldier shlin28)"????

It clearly states that in Chapter 343 Paragraph 8 Line 35 that all forms of secret societies that deals in information that I am not privileged to is FROWNED UPON!

That's right, secret townie groups get FROWNED UPON by me!

*sigh*

Being a soldier trying to maintain law and order is tough...

[Askthepizzaguy]

1) He would shift alignments if asked, hence trusting him with info is bad

Yes, and mafia games are full of trustworthy people. Honestly man, it's like you're trying to teach ABC's to college graduates.

2) He believes someone is a role based of off nothing but this:

Forgive me for trying to figure out what you were up to. Turns out it was no good, as per usual. As I even predicted in our little exchange, too. I said you had a checkered history, and this just adds to the pile. And that's a checkered history as a townie, not mafia. So you're even less trustworthy than me.

You're a very cunning and intelligent player, Sasaki. But you aren't on the side of justice all the time, even when you're a townie. And you're the last person who should be chiding another player for being willing to backstab.



The pot, Sasaki, calls the kettle, Pizzaguy, black. But I thank you for allowing me to die in an exciting enough manner. And I appreciate the entertainment value here.

[shlin28]

A true townie would stay as a townie even if he is tempted by other more juicy roles. Surely it is more fun to stand and fight knowing that you are disadvantaged?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Bah. This is a game of betrayal and risk. Staying true is not always my desired course. So it is a risk, yeah, in trusting me. I don't WANT to become a player people can always trust. I want it to be a course of action that takes cojones, trusting me. That's... more... fun. The whole point of the game. But at the same time, in spite of my shenanigans here, I have protected several people's identities and it will help the town in the long run.



If anyone wants to continue discussing this with me, please do so in private. I tire of monopolizing the discussion, and so do others tire of me doing so. This was an entertaining round where, believe it or not, I did shine, and accomplished more than you know. But, I bow out now, because this is a team game, and you all need to have a little peace and quiet to think, to catch the mafia. I will comment, briefly, when necessary, but Pizzaguy's "shut up" policy goes into effect starting now. Interact with me in private if you wish.



edit:
And by the way, I know who the Tax Collector is, and he needs to be eliminated next round.

[Yoyoma1910]

How about this, then?


What happened in Ares game when I gave you my information?


You exposed who I was and who everyone else was, and when combined with the writeups, you allowed the mafia to catch every town power role.


...


How was that helpful to town or being a good faux-mason?

[Lord Winter]

And by the way, I know who the Tax Collector is, and he needs to be eliminated next round.

why?

[Yoyoma1910]

edit:
And by the way, I know who the Tax Collector is, and he needs to be eliminated next round.

Maybe you should be eliminated next round? Because now you're playing the fool.

[TinCow]

And by the way, I know who the Tax Collector is, and he needs to be eliminated next round.

Then perhaps you should tell us WHO this person is and WHY they need to be eliminated. It's kind of hard to lynch an anonymous person.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*sigh*

I'll reveal it next round. But actually, I don't want to expose him just yet; I need to find out if he was lying to me about being the tax collector. And give him a chance to argue his case and pose a defense and yadda yadda yadda in private. Master Beefy once taught me patience, and as a student, I accept his lessons to be patient.

It's part of my role to eliminate him, and to be honest, it may not have an impact on the overall townie victory. However, because the host gave me this role, I am supposed to do my best to find out who he is and destroy him. I'm bound by the rules to at least give it a try.

That's all. Peace out.

[_Tristan_]

Yes, it is either too much or not enough said...

[Yoyoma1910]

Pizza, don't be a fool.


You're about to expose someone who is most likely protown, and trusted you.... like a fool.


Shame on you.

Edit: And shame on anyone who trusted you with their info.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No ad hominems please, first of all. And second, it's my job. If you had this role, you would have to do it or give it a try, Yoyoma.

I'm always the bad guy. I'm just playing the game as I was instructed to do, by the host, and by the request of my partner.

Further conversations involving me in private only. Thank you.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It was actually a very worthy plan, and of course it had a chance to fall to pieces if I betrayed everyone. But no vital roles got exposed, and I did accomplish a pro-town objective this round, which was to identify the Tax Collector. he even revealed himself to me as the Tax Collector.

So, he's either mafia, or he is the tax collector, Sasaki. I don't see a lot of other options.

...

Well let's just say, according to the host, many will do much better if the Tax Collector dies. He is a burden to ALL of the "men", and to eliminate him, we will all do much better.

It seems the tax collector is someone that the "men" are supposed to eliminate as a side goal. However, since I've posted this bit, undoubtedly the "good men" will not go along with it so we can forget about that

Personally I would rather eliminate the mafia and reform the tax system by other means

edit:

I already accomplished a game objective for my team, the masons,

On review, eliminating the tax collector seems to be a goal for just the masons.

[shlin28]

A tax collector sounds like a detective to me, as by definition a tax collector needs to know who to collect tax from,and can find out other people's personal details, and so calculate how much tax to collect.

[Reenk Roink]

Just a few things guys:

Challenges can be taken back BY both the person who challenged and the person who was challenged and accepted until the voting period ends in the same way votes can be changed.

No comment on some questions about how exactly the duel system works.

Now, more importantly, I just read the last 40 new posts and everything seemed pretty fine to me on first impression. Then I checked my PM's and got a complaint about sportsmanship. I read the same 40 posts again and could see the point of the complaint but didn't really agree, but felt I still needed to address it to make sure all was .

The way I see it, Mafia games are about disagreement and deception. When people disagree and deceive each other, sometimes things can get heated. Also, in a game where parties win at the expense of other parties, the same potential for things to get heated exists.

The thing that, at least for me, makes the game not ever get heated, are the facts that this is the internet, that most of the people playing together are on good terms and have played together before, and that the context of the game will explain away any kind of questionable statements.

This is why when I post on Mafia games, it's usually with a grin on my face, even if I'm acting another way (see the way I feigned being hurt by accusations that I was being a spoiler in the Godfather 3 ).

Essentially I really think people need to do two things when playing this game:

1) Realize the context you are in
2) Thicken your skin accordingly

Some people naturally don't like games with disagreement and deception, or are not comfortable enough with the context of the game and so they do not play or have stopped playing. That is fine. Some people don't like contact sports, others do.

By signing up for this game, I would expect every player to have at least considered the two things stated above, and so far, I think basically everyone is doing so.

With all of that being said, I would like to see one thing happen. In you arguments (which I am loving ) try your best to choose your words carefully so as to have it explicitly pertain to the statements themselves and not the poster.

I think everyone who is playing this game has been attacking arguments and not the arguer, but sometimes the word choice combined with the nature of communication by text leads to misunderstandings.

Therefore, instead of saying "liar" say "that statement of yours is a lie" and instead of saying "fool" say "your behavior/play is foolish" and so on.

Thanks and carry on now.

[TinCow]

Uh... so when exactly is this day phase going to end?

[Reenk Roink]

20:00 EST (every time the writeups are posted, the time when the round ends will be on top).