The Settlement [Concluded]

[TinCow]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

[GeneralHankerchief]

No names. None at all. Otherwise the villains will use simple process of elimination to off the power roles.

[Askthepizzaguy]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

Welcome to my own personal hades.

If it makes more sense, Beefy left oodles of clues all over every single post he made. Oh, and he was a Good Man, was he not? And people were targeting those Good Men?

Personally, I don't trust you at all this game, TinCow. You've been an obstacle to our path forward the entire time, in my opinion. But I reserve judgment against you, because I don't know whose side you're on, and I won't just assume you're guilty and write off everything you say as a scummy tactic. it would be nice if you'd do the same for me.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You've been an obstacle to our path forward the entire time, in my opinion.

Wouldn't that make him more trustworthy? After all, a mafioso would be dying to be included in such a group.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, that doesn't necessarily follow. Don't remember which logical fallacy that is.

A mafioso may choose to remain uncooperative, especially when more than half the town was.

[GeneralHankerchief]

a) The mafioso has no way of knowing how much of the town is taking part.

b) Ask yourself the question: If armed with a host-provided cover role and given the chance to join a pro-town network, would you take it?

[TinCow]

Wouldn't that make him more trustworthy? After all, a mafioso would be dying to be included in such a group.

"I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member."

-Groucho Marx

[Askthepizzaguy]

b) Ask yourself the question: If armed with a host-provided cover role and given the chance to join a pro-town network, would you take it?

Possibly. But being part of the network is like being part of my foot. You don't gain access to the brain, and we can investigate your claims.

You're shooting yourself in that same foot to lie to me.

[Reenk Roink]

And here I thought that post counts would continue going down each round.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I really, really just wanted to hang back and roleplay a little bit this time.

Why, oh why, Reenk, did you make me a mason?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Best analogy of the year award for the above?

And I'm not lying to you, I'm simply pointing out that a mafioso would definitely join a group if given the opportunity to. It makes life so much easier, because all your targets turn from adversaries to sitting ducks.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Anyway, ATPG, you're getting clouded again. Because I'm simply disagreeing with you you're now discounting the validity and truthfulness of my statements. If you really want to help then don't write people off simply because they have other ideas.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Good! I hope they would attempt to join.

Everyone who revealed to me must die before the end of the game, with the investigator being sort of at the end of that list. But first, we must squeeze that melon until all the juice is gone.

You sign up to volunteer info to me, and you are killing yourself as a mafia. That's my policy. That's what I am doing in the medieval mafia.

And you don't get jack squat for information from me, either. So either be selfless and help out, and accept the deadly consequences, or don't sign up. And I didn't reveal this policy beforehand, so anyone who lied to me is now royally Roinked.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So let me get this straight. ATPG and Seamus discover that Beefy is the tax collector on the first day phase (since ATPG mentions his duel/challenge fiasco in that dialog, that's where it fits in the timeline). Beefy is then murdered that night. ATPG and Seamus state they are simple shepherds who can't kill. So, we're meant to believe that the mafia coincidentally targeted Beefy immediately after his role was uncovered by the 'network' and that it has nothing at all to do with the 'network' spreading around information that eventually found its way to the mafia? I won't even bother analyzing the fact that ATPG and Seamus admit they they needed Beefy dead to win, beause I think I would fall off my chair laughing at the absurdity of the situation.

I said myself that I almost protected beefy that night. He dropped hints that he had a role. Why would the mafia care about killing the tax collector?

[Askthepizzaguy]

And no, I am not writing you off GH. I disagree with you on a strategic point; I didn't say you were mafia.

In fact, having two strategies is useful. SkyNet got one fellow, but that alone wasn't enough in Godfather. An independent mind like Sasaki's got the others. Two valid strategies is better than one.

[GeneralHankerchief]

You said I was lying.

[TinCow]

Everyone who revealed to me must die before the end of the game, with the investigator being sort of at the end of that list. But first, we must squeeze that melon until all the juice is gone.

Interesting recruiting platform you've got going there.

I said myself that I almost protected beefy that night.

If you were out 'doctoring' people on that night, why exactly were you returning home disappointed? Surely if your target lived through the night, you would have been happy.

Unaware of the events at the house of Gaius Scribonius Curio, Sasaki Kojiro walked back to his tent with a look of disappointment but also relief on his face. His work done for the night, he tried to get some sleep.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki Kojiro walked back to his tent with a look of disappointment but also relief on his face

[Askthepizzaguy]

You said I was lying.

Did I? Where??? I'm sorry. Was that a while ago or recent? I'm getting overloaded and I cannot think at the moment. For the record; I am not SURE about you GH. I didn't say that you were mafia, I said I didn't understand your motives or your unwillingness to justify Andres' death.

I did my own research and agreed with you, and his reveal tells me a lot as well. So I tend to trust you a little bit, but it's all relative. I distrust you just as much as I trust you; it's a wash.

I feel I am hogging attention again. Can people who want to talk to me do it via private message so others can get a word in edgewise?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was busy with kids and clients, but Pizza was on the case:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=399

Beefy187, I find your bandwagon stinky. And despite hints in private, you didn't sound like a townie to me. You also refused to claim a role or give me your duel rating, but if you didn't want to help out, why hint at all?

Sorry, don't mean to be a meanie, but I need more info or I will point the FoS at you for your bandwagon of Ares and also your subtle hint in private which was meaningless.

Don't mean to be hard on you, but I'd rather resolve this privately before I have to take it public. I am pointing the FoS at Sasaki now, don't need to be distracted by two arguments at once.

If you can answer my suspicions, I will drop it. You have a major role, and if it is protown, I need to know before I expose you.

Yes I'm the tax collecter. I have a friend who works towards the common cause and a NPC who does all my dirty works.

I was willing to give you my battle rating. But I wanted to what dueling does before I tell you anything.

Townie again are you ATPG?

Your majesty's loyal terrier, thy name is Askthepizzaguy.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm sorry to decline but keep your offer in mind.

Hello, Good Men.

I once again implore you to share what info you have, especially if it is non-critical information. If you're reluctant to share your pro-town role, that is fine. If you have a high duel rating and don't want it known, that is also fine. But there are some risks worth taking.

Writeup tends to point the finger at Ares, so I see no reason why not.

Feel free to ignore this attempt at data mining if you disagree with the idea. My partner asked me to do this for him, and yes, he's a mason.

Suppose I told you who my partner was.
Suppose he confirmed it to you himself, in private.
Suppose I die, this round, in battle.

Come now, Unnamed... It's me, Pizzaguy. Throw your old ally a freakin bone here!



All right, I'll leave it alone.

The only thing I can tell you at this time is that I'm loyal to the Priest King. Are you ?

I am proving that by accepting Sasaki's challenge even though he lied to me, he is virtually guaranteed to murder me, 3 is 150% of the strength of 2, so I am toast.

And I already know someone's identity who is a pro town role.

I am not asking much; just knowing an ability (non-critical, even)
Or, knowing your duel strength (assuming it is low, or medium... or if you trust me, high)

These things my mason partner can use to coordinate the town's efforts after I am dead. He will reveal, you know. Just not yet.



Listen, Unnamed; it doesn't matter whether you trust me now or not. My partner asked me to do this snooping for him, because I was cruelly, cruelly exposed by White_Eyes on round one, and the mafia will murder me eventually. I just cannot take the risk that the town will waste a valuable lynch on me, because the longer I wait, the more the town will grow suspect of my innocence.

I am being awfully obvious, and giving you my life, if I were not pro-town. That level of ballsiness deserves some recognition, but it's not even about that. Occam's razor: I offered to die, over and over. I accepted a fatal duel. What am I?

For the sake of our comradeship (The more fool me, if you're lying), I'll choose to trust you.

I am a pro-town role with an ability allowing tampering with the votes before the end of day phase, the extent of which I will not tell at this point.

I will not reveal anything else unless I have further confirmation of where your loyalty truly resides.

Lightning strikes twice in a single round, my friend. Should we trust Unnamed? If he betrays us, we know he is a mafia.

By the way,



I finally am vindicated as a useful person. But you knew that already. Thanks for the kind words.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So, to summarize:

Sasaki made an offer to join a cult, and I foolishly accepted (who wouldn't?)

And he was a liar the whole time. Probably a townie, though, sadly. He threw a wrench into my plans.

We will need to lynch Beefy187, because we can no longer duel him. I did my best, but Sasaki discrediting me makes me useless to you now, and I need to not waste a town's lynch on myself.

I replied (finding it almost impossible to keep up with the sheer volume of pizza's efforts):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So, to summarize:

Sasaki made an offer to join a cult, and I foolishly accepted (who wouldn't?)

And he was a liar the whole time. Probably a townie, though, sadly. He threw a wrench into my plans.

We will need to lynch Beefy187, because we can no longer duel him. I did my best, but Sasaki discrediting me makes me useless to you now, and I need to not waste a town's lynch on myself.

Much good learning here pizzaguy. I am saving all of these and can reveal a wad of info at the correct moment.

As long as you are alive, we can still double team Beefy. I'd have to challenge probably, but you could still help.

We'll chat

Pizza:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[QUOTE=Askthepizzaguy]Regarding beefy:

He is probably pro-town, though Seamus; and the idea is to outlast him, perhaps, not destroy him. I say he is pro-town because he didn't really hesitate to reveal through CLUES to the town that he might be the tax collector, even though he knows people are gunning for him; and he totally admitted it in private to me.

We should hold off unless he can get lynched or investigated or something. I don't want to toss Beefy to the wolves just because he's an unpopular townie who people want to destroy.

But, I defer to your wisdom. If you want him dead, I will challenge him.


RESPONSE TO PERSONAL ADVICE FROM ME REGARDING SPORTSMANSHIP DELETED [QUOTE]

Me:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Regarding beefy:

He is probably pro-town, though Seamus; and the idea is to outlast him, perhaps, not destroy him. I say he is pro-town because he didn't really hesitate to reveal through CLUES to the town that he might be the tax collector, even though he knows people are gunning for him; and he totally admitted it in private to me.

We should hold off unless he can get lynched or investigated or something. I don't want to toss Beefy to the wolves just because he's an unpopular townie who people want to destroy.

But, I defer to your wisdom. If you want him dead, I will challenge him.

I am not sure we should challenge yet. It may be best to wait, I agree. let me catch up on thread at least (I'm back at 480)

REPEAT OF MATERIAL DELETED ABOVE.

Fair enough. My point was REMAINDER OF MY RESPONSE TO PERSONAL ISSUE DELETED.

Also Me:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Let's wait quietly for the night to end.

2. Yes, we'll challenge Beefy (who, though we can't be certain, I believe you DID get a true reveal from) -- but I don't think you'll be murdered so, for now, we should delay the challenge.

3. We have to be VERY careful about infiltration and duplicity in your PM research. You seem good at cajoling confessions -- as our departed scribe's history suggests -- but we need that "grain of salt."

4. So far, this is shaping up nicely. I WILL reveal everything prior to my death -- unless I am night killed -- but unless both of us get dead at the same time, we will have these as a record of the research, which SHOULD be public at least eventually.

Pizza:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Let's wait quietly for the night to end.

2. Yes, we'll challenge Beefy (who, though we can't be certain, I believe you DID get a true reveal from) -- but I don't think you'll be murdered so, for now, we should delay the challenge.

3. We have to be VERY careful about infiltration and duplicity in your PM research. You seem good at cajoling confessions -- as our departed scribe's history suggests -- but we need that "grain of salt."

4. So far, this is shaping up nicely. I WILL reveal everything prior to my death -- unless I am night killed -- but unless both of us get dead at the same time, we will have these as a record of the research, which SHOULD be public at least eventually.

Oh, I believe we can do reveals post mortem in this game. Just so you know.

*double checks the rulez*

Pizza quickly added:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.

Me:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.

Fair point.

btw, I think I could reveal after death, but not put out the PMs.

Pizza:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

And additionally; I make no note of the truthfulness of their claims. Only time will tell on that. I don't believe the mafia want to be caught in a lie, do they?

Odds are good that it is good info, and the more info I get, the more accurate it is.

Fair point.

btw, I think I could reveal after death, but not put out the PMs.

You could send the role pm's to someone we trust. But we need to know who that is, then!

That wrapped it for the 14th, and there was nothing on the 15th. I'll continue in the next post. At the advice of my partner, I am not naming living players by name. The alteration are perfectly obvious, for clarity.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I exhausted you, didn't I Seamus?

Woe be upon any mortal who is unfortunate enough to be my mason partner.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nevermind upon another read I misconstrued your statement. Carry on.

Anyway, I'll leave you be as March Madness is getting interesting.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I exhausted you, didn't I Seamus?

Woe be upon any mortal who is unfortunate enough to be my mason partner.

Anybody who faults your dedication is barking up the wrong tree, that's for sure.


EDIT: Doing a quick scan, will post the PMage from 16/17/18 later on -- simply no time before the meeting.

[Jolt]

I'm simply pointing out that a mafioso would definitely join a group if given the opportunity to. It makes life so much easier, because all your targets turn from adversaries to sitting ducks.

QFT. I'm not gonna hand out my information to people who I don't know who they'll share with. I won't reveal whatever my role is to people which I have no control whatsoever as to who hears it or not. I don't like it from the simple point of view that whoever ATPG trusts isn't trustable. Such as Sasaki which was member of some kind of cult, recruited people around and was killed by an apparent neutral god. I'm not gonna put my fate is ATPG (And whoever ATPG decides it is worth sharing the information) hands.

[CountArach]

I'm starting to become more and more convinced by ATPG's defence of himself - he seems very much genuine about not killing Beefy and I can't think of a rationale for why he would continue to kill on all succeeding nights. I am sure he will be investigated during the night and we sall receive confirmation eventually on this.

I don't agree with the townie network though - just throwing it out there.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have no defense here, only proof that I've been putting on a really, really, really elaborate performance as a townie if I were mafia.

I'm not so dumb, and Seamus was in on it the whole time, so if you lynch him, you will know I am not lying.

He will even agree to it, I am sure.

[Reenk Roink]

orders please

[Reenk Roink]

Day 3

As the sky dimmed, the priest king Reenk Roink emerged from his temple complex with the widow of Hankerchief the self styled general at his side. She was looking much more perky than she did in the morning. The settlers, especially the good men among them, had convincingly decided that Andres was the guilty one. The whispering of the spirit of Hankerchief the self styled general told them as much. Of course, the spirit of the pizza guy whom they liked to ask was as chatty as himself in life and was organizing a settler network to catch the usurpers.

So Andres was tied and strewn on the ground, arms and legs outstretched. As he lay at the feet of the priest king the latter asked: "Are you part of the usurper plot?"

Andres vehemently denied he was, pointing out that he merely killed some good men because of an unrelated reason.

Reenk Roink was disgusted by this answer and nodded to one of the Bronze Companions who proceeded to thrust a spear into the chest of Andres.

Voting Record:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Jolt votes Ichigo
White_eyes:D votes Sigurd
seireikhaan votes Sigurd
taka votes Andres
seireikhaan votes Andres - final
Captain Blackadder votes Andres
Yoyoma1910 votes Andres
Seamus Fermanagh votes Tristan de Castelreng
LittleGrizzly votes Andres
Psychonaut votes abstain
Andres votes abstain
TinCow votes Andres
Andres votes FactionHeir
Seamus Fermanagh votes Andres - final
boudica votes Andres
Tristan de Castelreng votes TinCow
Jolt votes Andres - final
Andres votes Yoyoma1910 - final
CountArach votes Andres
Tristan de Castelreng votes Yoyoma1910 - final
Sigurd votes Yoyoma1910

Challenge Record:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

none

Vote Tally:

Andres - 14 (taka, seireikhaan, Captain Blackadder, Yoyoma1910, LittleGrizzly, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh, boudica, Jolt, CountArach)
Yoyoma1910 - 4 (Andres, Tristan de Castelreng, Sigurd)
Sigurd - 1 (White_eyes:D)

abstain: 1 (Psychonaut)

Challenge List:


Alive:

taka
White_eyes:D
seireikhaan
Lord Winter
Captain Blackadder
Psychonaut
CountArach
FactionHeir
boudica
Jolt
TinCow
Ichigo
Yoyoma1910
Tristan de Castelrang
Sigurd
LittleGrizzly
Seamus Fermanagh

Executed:

777Ares777
Askthepizzaguy
Andres

Fallen in battle:


Killed:

TheFlax
pevergreen
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sasaki Kojiro
Beefy187
shlin28
GeneralHankerchief

[Sigurd]

Vote Tally:

Andres - 14 (taka, seireikhaan, Captain Blackadder, Yoyoma1910, LittleGrizzly, TinCow, Seamus Fermanagh, boudica, Jolt, CountArach)
Yoyoma1910 - 4 (Andres, Tristan de Castelreng, Sigurd)
Sigurd - 1 (White_eyes:D)

abstain: 1 (Psychonaut)

Heh... someone is manipulating the tally.
OR... somehow the good men's votes counts twice ...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, that is the case with the Good Men's votes.