Native American factions overpowered?

**Sir Beane** · 03-05-2009, 23:55

Originally Posted by ArtillerySmoke

I love how research directly ties into battle mechanics. That's hyper realistic, and a first for the TW series.

GREAT addition.

It really makes teching up seem worthwhile

. I loved it when I first researched fire by rank. I was attacked by a huge army of Cherokee. I only once because of the fire by rank ability my soldiers now had

.

**ArtillerySmoke** · 03-06-2009, 00:20

Originally Posted by Sir Beane

It really makes teching up seem worthwhile

. I loved it when I first researched fire by rank. I was attacked by a huge army of Cherokee. I only once because of the fire by rank ability my soldiers now had

.

Let me ask you, since it's my FIRST concern: Is the AI tech'ing up as well?

If it is, this is indeed Total War.

**Lord Godfrey** · 03-06-2009, 00:29

The Cherokee are a little over powered, especially if you are just expecting what would be normal rebels in MTW. I got my arse kicked the first time I went up against them, and I had to laugh when the next time they used my own cannon (previously captured) on me.

More unexpected than poor gaming. Just make sure you are a full stack or two when you go up against them and wipe them out quick, they seem to spawn like rabbits and I couldn't finish them off until around turn 20 - which was much later than I thought it would take.

**knoddy** · 03-06-2009, 02:20

Originally Posted by ArtillerySmoke

Let me ask you, since it's my FIRST concern: Is the AI tech'ing up as well?

If it is, this is indeed Total War.

short answer yes.

long answer - yes :P if u go to trade tech with them u can get a rough idea of what they are teching up etc :) whether theres any sense behind their tech decisions i dont know :)

**Oleander Ardens** · 03-06-2009, 08:37

Well as a matter of fact the more successfull native tribes ditched their bows very fast for muskets and later rifles. The supply with guns and ammo was a most decisive factor in the various wars between the various native and European coalitions. Yet people seem to continue to believe that bows are inherently superior.

In an open battle there was hardly a contest between Europeans and Natives. Then again open battles were only a small part of the spectrum of warfare. The tactics employed were often innovative for the theater of war but already in use in quite some parts of Europe. What do guys think what Jaegers, Dragoons and Hussars were for?

And "Moving Home" was indeed a major and sensible strategy for Native tribes as they tried to flee a superior enemy.

I understand CA that they wanted to give the Natives due but hopefully they didn't overshoot.

BTW: Units only armed with melee weapons should be outgunned easily. Even the Scottish fielded only a small percentage of their units with their "typical" melee weapons at Culladon.

**Don Esteban** · 03-06-2009, 14:13

Remember, smallpox killed far more Indians than battle. Without that they may have survived far longer....

**Discoman** · 03-06-2009, 15:23

The Native Americans weren't pushovers, they had managed to beat the young U.S. on several occasions (Chickamagua wars). There was also leaders like Tecumseh who wanted to unite the Indian tribes, which ultimately failed.

**andrewt** · 03-06-2009, 19:01

Originally Posted by Oleander Ardens

BTW: Units only armed with melee weapons should be outgunned easily. Even the Scottish fielded only a small percentage of their units with their "typical" melee weapons at Culladon.

I've started wondering about this ever since I started playing Empire. It seems units only get a few shots off before melee starts if one side decides to charge. I was wondering how pure, melee units got obsolete if that was the case since a guy with sword/shield/armor should have an advantage against the earlier infantry. Perhaps range is lower in Empire compared to what it was historically as a balancing mechanism.

**ArtillerySmoke** · 03-06-2009, 19:02

Originally Posted by andrewt

I've started wondering about this ever since I started playing Empire.

How long has it been?

**andrewt** · 03-06-2009, 19:09

Originally Posted by ArtillerySmoke

How long has it been?

Since yesterday! But yeah, it seems you can close pretty fast to melee range.

Also, the natives are only slightly weaker in firepower but a lot weaker in melee, at least in the RTI campaign. I've taken to rushing them in melee.

**Quillan** · 03-12-2009, 22:16

Originally Posted by andrewt

I've started wondering about this ever since I started playing Empire. It seems units only get a few shots off before melee starts if one side decides to charge. I was wondering how pure, melee units got obsolete if that was the case since a guy with sword/shield/armor should have an advantage against the earlier infantry. Perhaps range is lower in Empire compared to what it was historically as a balancing mechanism.

It's really a matter of your tech. Until you get Fire By Rank, your unit typically fires one massive volley, then spends the next 20-30 seconds reloading. That gives plenty of time for the target to recover from the volley, charge, and get into melee combat. With Fire By Rank, you should get the front rank to fire, then the second rank, then the third, each a couple of seconds later. This should keep the shock effect rolling.