Stalinist and Nazi sympathizers

[Vuk]

I recently found myself getting extremely offended by the large amount of Stalin worshippers posting in a Frontroom thread. It offended me because men are known and judged by either their actions, their circustance, or their looks. (In Stalins case it certainly could not be the last two) When someone praises someone like Stalin, they praise his actions: The liquidation and torture of millions of people in small amount of time, the deprivation of basic human rate of hundreds of millions over the years, the abject disregard for human worth and exploitation of Eastern Europe. Praising such deeds (either directly or indirectly) is extremely offensive to anyone who DOES value life, and all the more so to someone who may have lost a relative to said butchery. I made the analogy to praising Hitler in the Frontroom thread. How do you think a second generation Slav, Jew, or any other victim of Hitler's tyrrany on this forum would feel about someone praising Hitler? Esp if a relative of theirs was killed by Nazis?
I know people have the freedom of speech, and I am a complete supporter of said freedom. There are things though that most people agree should not be tangled into everyday discussion, and we have a Backroom for them. Politics are among them. I think that the praising of butchers should be classified as Backroom material, and not allowed in the Frontroom. I am not talking about Ancient butchers of course, but the attrocities of recent dicators such as Stalin and Hitler are still very near to most peoples' hearts and is quite a sensitive issue.

Vuk

[SwordsMaster]

So many of my potential relatives were butchered by Gengis Khan. We should stop discussing Gengis Khan outside of the Backroom?

[Vuk]

So many of my potential relatives were butchered by Gengis Khan. We should stop discussing Gengis Khan outside of the Backroom?

3 important points (one of which is already in my first post):
1st of all, there are still people surviving today who were victims of the regimes of Hitler and Stalin, and the attrocities commited by both are still very near and dear to most people.
2nd, there are still people today who would like to return to such terrors (neo Nazis, neocommunists, etc), which makes it a real danger to humanity in the present day. I doubt that we need worry about a mongol invasion wiping the world out.
3rd, related to the first two, because it is so near to people, and because there still are followers of both systems, it is politics as well as history, and politics are a backroom thing.

Also I would like to point out that the poster who offended me most admitted that Stalin did those things, and STILL liked him for his accomplishments. There is a difference between someone who believes that Stalin was villified in history *rolls eyes* and does not believe that he really did that, and someone who worships him for what he admits he did. Even so, it is politics and does not belong outside of the backroom. I personally think that Milosevic was framed and was not guilty of warcrimes, but I do not a) worship him b) talk about him outside the backroom.

Stalin's and Hitler's regimes were a rape on human kind and not something that people should praise outside the backroom (or at all in my opinion, but I believe in free speech). Surely you can see how that would offend people?

[pevergreen]

Easy solution. Put Glenn on your ignore list. I've had him there since he signed up and the .org is a better place for me.

[Vuk]

Easy solution. Put Glenn on your ignore list. I've had him there since he signed up and the .org is a better place for me.

True, but I should not have to put everyone who offends me on my ignore list. I think the better solution would be simply for members not to say offensive things. When you put someone on your ignore list you lose everything they say, not just the offensive bits. Do you know what I mean? Also, whether I am seeing it or not, I do not like the idea of knowing that people like Hitler or Stalin and are being openly praised in the Frontroom. If it offended me, I am sure that it offended a lot of other people as well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

In truth, you must know Vuk that I personally despise Stalin and Hitler, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Mugabe, and any number of trumped up dictator bullies who caused mass death, and it offends me to see anyone giving them a pass. I personally find it revolting and sickening beyond belief.

However, when praises for these evil men are sung, the people singing those praises can be scrutinized. I want the KKK and NAMBLA and all those other people who believe that sick twisted stuff to come forward and identify themselves, so I can ignore them, and so I can figure out who they are and stay far away from them, and at the same time, publicly decry their behavior and shun them.

I do suggest the easiest solution in cases like this is to ignore said person. If what they said was that offensive (and as an American, I was very much personally offended) then perhaps this is a person you don't want to speak to. And if they wanted their voice heard, they should not post things which they know would offend most English-speaking people on here. I don't go to a Japanese website and start decrying all the Japanese evils of World War II, because its in the past, and its rude to keep hounding a people who aren't responsible for that. As such, people who hate the United States or England or Australia or whatever may not want to post here, and if they do, they should expect to be ignored for their one-sided attack.

Anywho; I wanted you to know I agree with your sentiment, but I am not enough of a fan of censorship to call for anything but a personal ignore in that case.

If it were just a little bit more malicious, I'd agree with you. Personally, I think it is ignorant to hold such powerfully hateful feelings towards nations which have stood up for human rights and freedoms for centuries, but people are unfortunately allowed to be ignorant.



So, in short, I support what you're saying and how you feel, but I don't believe action should be taken unless the off-topic continues, or if the person in question posted another post which was an offense against entire countries or races.

The Frontroom isn't for politics anyway, and if the moderator sees it, he may in fact have the right to delete said content. I'm borderline on that, but fortunately, it's not my call.

[caravel]

True, but I should not have to put everyone who offends me on my ignore list. I think the better solution would be simply for members not to say offensive things. When you put someone on your ignore list you lose everything they say, not just the offensive bits. Do you know what I mean?

Exactly right. The ignore list is there if needed, but here at the .org you should never need to use it IMHO. If someone's posts were to annoy me that much then I would think that it was myself that had the issues and not the poster in question. At the most I'd simply stop reading their posts.

Ignoring members may seem a good idea to you, but members that make posts that you don't like or don't agree with in one part of the forum often make quality posts in other parts. I can think of quite a few members that fit this category. By ignoring them you're doing yourself a disservice. Any posts that break the rules will be dealt with, so what is there to avoid?

[Pannonian]

Easy solution. Put Glenn on your ignore list. I've had him there since he signed up and the .org is a better place for me.

Wouldn't that have made Capo 2 a bit tricky, considering he was the most active poster in the early game?

[Askthepizzaguy]

You could temporarily turn off the ignore during a game like that. And as some have noted, if his behavior is that bad, reporting should take care of it.

Unfortunately when you simply don't like a behavior and the moderators deem it legal, the onus is on you to ignore them or suffer through it. But, you do have the ability to object out loud to their behavior and ask them nicely to stop.

After that, you could put in a complaint to the host of the game, in that case Seamus Fermanagh, who would try to resolve the dispute in the fairest way, and he'd possibly ask the offender in question to tone it down too, even if it were legal.

[Andres]

Hi Vuk, it seems like the post that offended you already got taken care of by a moderator.

For future reference, if you encounter a post that violates Org rules or that is out of place (e.g. off topic spam or Backroom material outside the Backroom), use the report post button instead of the Watchtower.

Staff can't be here 24/7, but if the post is indeed "bad", then action will be taken against it (as you can see in the Frontroom thread you linked to).

[pevergreen]

Hes from Australia?

Gah.

[LittleGrizzly]

I don't know what exactly the post said that this argument originated from....

But in this thread at least.... Glenn has a point.... Not that the Soviet Union are great (thier terrible) but that people could be similarly offended by praising a country like USA for example.... who are of course far less worse than the soviet union but they have done plenty of bad things

[LittleGrizzly]

Lack of edit in the watchtower is annoying...

Just ignore the post above...i was going to edit it out... but if it really annoys you read my calrification below...

he had a point in that various groups of people could be personally offended by praise of almost any leader....

[Strike For The South]

Posts like that do not belong in the frontroom though. Granted if you want to say Americas bad we could also point out the fact that aussie has been eradicating and reeducating there natives for hundreds of years now.

Every country has blood on its hands.

But posting such things in the frontroom only ruins threads and hurts feelings

[Kralizec]

I didn't get to see the thread before Lemur started editing the posts, so I don't know if anyone praised Stalin. I only nominated him because it is a manly name...sort of.

I agree that Stalin is on par with Hitler, and that if mentioning one of them in the frontroom is allowed the same should go for the other...glorifying either should be done in the backroom.