A few questions

**Garnier** · 03-08-2009, 00:52

Hmm, this is interesting. I agree about naval trade, it really never did work and you've given me courage to try removing it.

And Gollum, that information about the AI personalities is really helpful, I am definitely going to try that out as well. However, I was under the impression that AI personalities changed during the game, am I confusing something?

How exactly would you go about removing sea trade, I can only imagine it would be necessary to remove all trade entirely, is this correct? I don't know of a way to only stop sea trade.
While trade is an interesting part of the game it works terribly and inevitably benefits the human over the AI.

I am going to hold off on starting another campaign for now as I try figure out how to make things work better.

**caravel** · 03-08-2009, 02:10

Originally Posted by Garnier

Hmm, this is interesting. I agree about naval trade, it really never did work and you've given me courage to try removing it.

And Gollum, that information about the AI personalities is really helpful, I am definitely going to try that out as well. However, I was under the impression that AI personalities changed during the game, am I confusing something?

How exactly would you go about removing sea trade, I can only imagine it would be necessary to remove all trade entirely, is this correct? I don't know of a way to only stop sea trade.
While trade is an interesting part of the game it works terribly and inevitably benefits the human over the AI.

I am going to hold off on starting another campaign for now as I try figure out how to make things work better.

To stop sea trade you would have to stop all trade entirely, because as soon as a trader is built and a shipping link exists, trade occurs. The simple way to do this would be to remove goods and traders and assign a decent fixed income to ports.

The, somewhat different, approach I have gone for is to remove all shipping and keep ports, traders and trade goods intact. This stops the ridiculous "high speed" movement of army stacks all over the map and eliminates overseas trade altogether. Instead of sea trade you exploit the "local trade" income as a means of generating income per province based on the goods present. You would have to increase the value of the goods somewhat to make them worthwhile and perhaps add more goods, especially to landlocked provinces, to balance it out. The "local trade income" will then generate florins based on the goods and level of the trader built. Ports are retained and agents can still move from port to port.

**Garnier** · 03-08-2009, 02:33

So you removed ships entirely. That's a good idea, really. Could you save me some time by posting the relevant code you use in the EARLY period startpos? As far as the trade goods in provinces and their values, is concered.

**gollum** · 03-08-2009, 04:06

Originally posted by Garnier
And Gollum, that information about the AI personalities is really helpful, I am definitely going to try that out as well. However, I was under the impression that AI personalities changed during the game, am I confusing something?

Not that i know of. In STW and STW/MI AI personalities did indeed change with the ascent of a new daimyo as head of the clan - and teh faction behaved differently.

However in MTW/VI observation says that the AI faction personality is retained to the end of the game. EXPANSIONIST factions do behave expansionistically till game over etc.

**caravel** · 03-08-2009, 14:07

These are the standard trade goods in MTW Vanilla:

Code:

DeclareTradegoods:: "GLASSWARE"	 40
DeclareTradegoods:: "WOOD"		20
DeclareTradegoods:: "FURS"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "WINE"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "WOOL"		30
DeclareTradegoods:: "SILK"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "COTTON"	30
DeclareTradegoods:: "LINEN"		30
DeclareTradegoods:: "WAX"		20
DeclareTradegoods:: "HONEY"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "SALT"		20
DeclareTradegoods:: "HIDES"		30
DeclareTradegoods:: "BUTTER"	20
DeclareTradegoods:: "POTTERY"	30
DeclareTradegoods:: "FISH"		20
DeclareTradegoods:: "SPICES"	50
DeclareTradegoods:: "GEMS"		50
DeclareTradegoods:: "SUGAR"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "DYES"		50
DeclareTradegoods:: "IVORY"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "OLIVEOIL"	30
DeclareTradegoods:: "GRAIN"		30

Without actual sea trade you'd be looking at increasing those to perhaps double their value to ensure that trading posts are worthwhile. e.g.

Code:

DeclareTradegoods:: "GLASSWARE"	 80
DeclareTradegoods:: "WOOD"		40
DeclareTradegoods:: "FURS"		80

You may also want to reduce the cost of building the traders slightly, though this depends on how you balance the income. You don't want to outlay 1000 florins on something that returns a pittance, neither do you want a structure that is too cheap to build and gives large returns.

Setting the trade goods per province is easy, just open Early.txt startpos file (or High.txt or Late.txt) and find this section:

Code:

SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANJOU			SILK		LINEN
SetResources::		ID_ALGERIA			GOLD			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANJOU			LINEN		SILK
//SetResources::	ID_ANTIOCH				
SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANTIOCH			SILK		SPICES		GEMS
SetResources::		ID_AQUITAINE		SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_AQUITAINE		WINE
SetResources::		ID_ARAGON			IRON
SetTradableGoods::	ID_ARMENIA			SILK		SPICES		GEMS
SetResources::		ID_AUSTRIA			COPPER			
SetResources::		ID_BAVARIA			SALT			
SetResources::		ID_BOHEMIA			IRON		SILVER
SetTradableGoods::	ID_BOHEMIA			LINEN
SetResources::		ID_BRANDENBURG		COPPER		
SetTradableGoods::	ID_BRANDENBURG		LINEN		GRAIN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_BRITTANY			LINEN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_BULGARIA			GRAIN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_BURGUNDY			WINE
SetResources::		ID_CARPATHIA		COPPER		SILVER		IRON
SetResources::		ID_CASTILE			IRON			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_CASTILE			SILK			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_CHAMPAGNE		GRAIN			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_CONSTANTINOPLE	SILK		GRAIN		DYES
SetTradableGoods::	ID_CORDOBA			SILK		HIDES	
SetResources::		ID_CORSICA			SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_CRIMEA			GRAIN			
SetResources::		ID_CROATIA			SILVER		COPPER			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_DENMARK			BUTTER		FISH
SetTradableGoods::	ID_EDESSA			SILK		SPICES		GEMS		
//SetResources::	ID_EGYPT			
SetTradableGoods::  ID_EGYPT			COTTON		IVORY		
SetTradableGoods::	ID_FINLAND			FURS
SetTradableGoods::	ID_FLANDERS			GRAIN		SILK		WOOL
SetResources::		ID_FRANCONIA		IRON
SetTradableGoods::	ID_FREISLAND		WOOL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_GENOA	 		SILK
SetResources::		ID_GRANADA			SILVER
SetTradableGoods::	ID_GREECE			SILK
SetResources::		ID_HUNGARY			COPPER		IRON
SetTradableGoods::  ID_ILE_DE_FRANCE	GRAIN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_IRELAND			WOOL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_KHAZAR			WAX			HONEY		HIDES
SetTradableGoods::  ID_KIEV				LINEN		GRAIN
SetResources::		ID_LEON				IRON
SetTradableGoods::  ID_LEON				WOOL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_LITHUANIA 		WOOD		BUTTER		HIDES		
SetTradableGoods::	ID_LIVONIA			WOOD		BUTTER
SetTradableGoods::	ID_LORRAINE			POTTERY		LINEN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_MERCIA			WOOL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_MILAN	 		SILK
SetTradableGoods::	ID_MOLDAVIA			GRAIN
SetResources::		ID_MOROCCO			GOLD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_MOROCCO			HIDES
SetTradableGoods::	ID_MUSCOVY			FURS
SetTradableGoods::	ID_NAPLES			OLIVEOIL	SILK
SetResources::		ID_NAVARRE			IRON
SetTradableGoods::	ID_NICAEA			GRAIN
SetResources::		ID_NORTH_UMBRIA		COPPER
SetTradableGoods::	ID_NORTH_UMBRIA		WOOL		FISH
SetTradableGoods::	ID_NORWAY			FISH		WOOD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_NOVGOROD			FURS		WOOD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_POLAND			GRAIN		WOOD
SetResources::		ID_POMERANIA		SALT	
SetTradableGoods::	ID_POMERANIA		GRAIN		LINEN
SetResources::		ID_PORTUGAL			SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_PORTUGAL			WAX			OLIVEOIL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_PRUSSIA			WAX
SetTradableGoods::	ID_RYAZAN			HIDES
SetResources::		ID_SARDINIA			SILVER		SALT
SetResources::		ID_SAXONY			SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SAXONY			GRAIN
SetResources::		ID_SERBIA			GOLD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SICILY			SILK		SUGAR		GRAIN
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SILESIA			WOOD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SMOLENSK			WOOD
SetResources::		ID_SWABIA			SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SWABIA			WINE
SetResources::		ID_SWEDEN			COPPER		IRON
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SWEDEN			FURS		FISH		WOOD
SetTradableGoods::	ID_SYRIA			GEMS		
SetResources::		ID_TOULOUSE			SALT
SetTradableGoods::	ID_TOULOUSE			SILK
SetTradableGoods::	ID_TRIPOLI			SUGAR		COTTON
SetResources::		ID_TUNISIA			GOLD
SetResources::		ID_TUSCANY			IRON
SetTradableGoods::	ID_TUSCANY			WOOL
SetTradableGoods::	ID_VALENCIA			SILK
SetTradableGoods::	ID_VENICE			GLASSWARE	SILK		WOOL	
SetTradableGoods::	ID_VOLGA_BULGARIA	FURS	
SetTradableGoods::	ID_VOLHYNIA			WOOD
SetResources::		ID_WALES			COPPER
SetTradableGoods::	ID_WESSEX			WOOL

To change the trade goods you simple need to add the required good to the line for that province e.g:

Code:

SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANJOU			SILK		LINEN
SetResources::		ID_ALGERIA			GOLD			
SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANJOU			WINE		LINEN		SILK
//SetResources::	ID_ANTIOCH				
SetTradableGoods::	ID_ANTIOCH			SILK		SPICES		GEMS

To remove shipping simply make shipyards only buildable by the rebels in crusaders_build_prod13.txt. to do this add the following to column 20 row 33:

Code:

"{FN_REBEL},{FN_REBEL},{FN_REBEL},{FN_REBEL}"

Then make ships unbuildable by adding "NO_FACTION" against each ship type in column 50 of crusaders_unitprod11.txt.

Next find the "MakeUnit" section in your startpos file and look for lines like this, placing ships in provinces:

Code:

MakeUnit:: ID_GENOA				Galley				1

Comment those lines out as follows:

Code:

//MakeUnit:: ID_GENOA				Galley				1

Also do the same with any shipyards listed against "MakeBuilding".

The next stage is to landbridge the islands to the mainland, but that's a whole new discussion. Assuming that you're working on Vanilla where no I would suggest:

Ireland -> Wales/Scotland

Corsica -> Genoa/Tuscany

Crete -> Greece

Malta -> Sicily

Cyprus -> Antioch

Rhodes -> Nicaea

**Garnier** · 03-08-2009, 14:25

Oh, sorry I wasn't clear. I know how to do all that of course, what I was asking was if you had the code you use for the trade goods in each province (as in the entire list of province trade goods). I have no idea on regional accuracy and didn't feel like making all that up myself. If you've not done it yet either don't worry about it.

**caravel** · 03-08-2009, 18:09

I see... well I haven't finished assigning trade goods as yet. When I have you are free to download the next version of the mod and have a look at the startpos file.