Okay, whatever. I can't do this anymore.Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
Thanks, it was an interesting discussion
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
Okay, whatever. I can't do this anymore.
Thanks, it was an interesting discussion
Last edited by Sarmatian; 03-14-2009 at 13:27.
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
I'm aware I get tedious sometimes.Okay, whatever. I can't do this anymore.
Thanks, it was an interesting discussionRefreshing discussion though, thanks.
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
#139 posts for Stalinism! As if enough people have not died because of his madness.
I really can not see much difference between the terror of Hitler and Stalin with the difference the Hitler terror concentrated on the jews, gyspsies and certain Slavs while those of Stalin was more dispersed. So I can not say that one is better than the other. There is no difference except for the one had won the war.
+ the doctrine of stalinism was based on public ownership + complete lack of entrepreneurship which in fact was one of the main reasons for the collapse of the system
Last edited by Prince Cobra; 03-14-2009 at 20:51.
R.I.P. Tosa...
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
“+ the doctrine of stalinism was based on public ownership + complete lack of entrepreneurship which in fact was one of the main reasons for the collapse of the system” and the other was based on Racism and murdering population not for what they thought but for what they were.
And Hitler as well killed for political reasons and as Stalin. The first concentration camps were built for the German opponents. He evens slaughtered in his own side (SA)…
By the way, the actual collapse is due to so-called entrepreneurs and their greed… So not really a valid reason to condemn Stalinism / Communism…
The fact is most of the reproaches towards Stalin (deportation, forced labours, Secret Police, political coup, absence of remorse and paranoia… etc) were actively done by the Capitalist states…
Communism didn’t work. But that is the only real difference with the Capitalism which is able to reinvent itself…
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
Holy jumping salt beans! If I do not see sources for that, I am afraid I am just gonna have to start laughing out loud right here and now.“+ the doctrine of stalinism was based on public ownership + complete lack of entrepreneurship which in fact was one of the main reasons for the collapse of the system” and the other was based on Racism and murdering population not for what they thought but for what they were.
And Hitler as well killed for political reasons and as Stalin. The first concentration camps were built for the German opponents. He evens slaughtered in his own side (SA)…
By the way, the actual collapse is due to so-called entrepreneurs and their greed… So not really a valid reason to condemn Stalinism / Communism…
The fact is most of the reproaches towards Stalin (deportation, forced labours, Secret Police, political coup, absence of remorse and paranoia… etc) were actively done by the Capitalist states…
Communism didn’t work. But that is the only real difference with the Capitalism which is able to reinvent itself…
Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.
Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
“If I do not see sources for that”: For which part?
Hitler’s ideology based on racism? Read the book.
Hitler killing his opponents: the night of the Long Knives.
Concentration camps built for the communists:
Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, and persons accused of "asocial" or socially deviant behaviour.
Actual economic collapse: read newspapers.
Capitalist states using all “communist” methods:
Secret polices: Okhrana, OSS, CIA, MI5, 2eme bureau, Agents aux Affaires Indigènes etc.
Forced Labour: I suggest to read Victor Hugo (Les Misérables) and to understand what happen to Jean Valjean…
It was common in the French, German, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish colonies in Africa and in the British colonies.
If you preferred hard facts, research on Cayenne, or Australia, or USA/Canada (what populations were sent initially, Filles du Roi etc).
Or perhaps slavery would do.
Deportation: Research on the long Marche of the Indians in US, or what happen to the Communards after their defeat (Louise Michel as ex.). Or try Indians in Amazonia…
Political Coup: I would suggest Allende (Chile), Dr Mohamed Mossadegh (Iran) or Ngo Dinh Diem (Vietnam).
Or Louis Napoleon Bonaparte, or Franco, or Mussolini would do…
Absence of Remorse: Gal Sherman would be a good example, or Condor Operation…
Paranoia: Spain under Franco would do, or the Domino Theory…
Communism doesn’t work: World actual political situation. And the fact that China still exist shouldn’t blind you. China isn’t really communist any more…
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
So you have to take the worst aspects of dozens of nations to match Stalin's regime. You don't see that as significant?“If I do not see sources for that”: For which part?
Hitler’s ideology based on racism? Read the book.
Hitler killing his opponents: the night of the Long Knives.
Concentration camps built for the communists:
Most prisoners in the early concentration camps were German Communists, Socialists, Social Democrats, Gypsies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, homosexuals, and persons accused of "asocial" or socially deviant behaviour.
Actual economic collapse: read newspapers.
Capitalist states using all “communist” methods:
Secret polices: Okhrana, OSS, CIA, MI5, 2eme bureau, Agents aux Affaires Indigènes etc.
Forced Labour: I suggest to read Victor Hugo (Les Misérables) and to understand what happen to Jean Valjean…
It was common in the French, German, Belgian, Portuguese, Spanish colonies in Africa and in the British colonies.
If you preferred hard facts, research on Cayenne, or Australia, or USA/Canada (what populations were sent initially, Filles du Roi etc).
Or perhaps slavery would do.
Deportation: Research on the long Marche of the Indians in US, or what happen to the Communards after their defeat (Louise Michel as ex.). Or try Indians in Amazonia…
Political Coup: I would suggest Allende (Chile), Dr Mohamed Mossadegh (Iran) or Ngo Dinh Diem (Vietnam).
Or Louis Napoleon Bonaparte, or Franco, or Mussolini would do…
Absence of Remorse: Gal Sherman would be a good example, or Condor Operation…
Paranoia: Spain under Franco would do, or the Domino Theory…
Communism doesn’t work: World actual political situation. And the fact that China still exist shouldn’t blind you. China isn’t really communist any more…
Re: Discussion of Stalinism
I suppose the biggest difference is that Stalin won while Hitler lost WW2.
I really can not see much difference between the terror of Hitler and Stalin with the difference the Hitler terror concentrated on the jews, gyspsies and certain Slavs while those of Stalin was more dispersed. So I can not say that one is better than the other. There is no difference except for the one had won the war.
+ the doctrine of stalinism was based on public ownership + complete lack of entrepreneurship which in fact was one of the main reasons for the collapse of the system
Since the allied wanted to keep Stalin close, they didn't pressure him too hard when Stalin did something nasty.
Really the two are no different.. Heck I think Stalin is much worse in terms of how many he killed.
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